Advice on what to do (bodyshop)

It’s very difficult to get bodywork and resprays done in this country.. once it’s beyond a scuffed bumper or door they are not interested or in some cases able..

I have had this saga and most of my friends have aswell…
funny enough I experienced the exact same run around with a jeep that needed work, like your car my keep wasn’t an everyday used car and once it’s not a car in everyday use, Bodyshops definitely don’t care about them and I’m embarrassed to say it took 6 months to get 2 days work done on it… I actually felt like a child being dismissed with lies every time I called in to see the progress.. but I had to bite my lip as no one else would do it..
i would love to tell him where to go and take my car out of it but the problem is you will have to find another body shop and start the waiting process all over again.

i don’t think there is much point on worrying about legalities or threatening him with it as you run the risk of him doing a half arsed job on it… it’s either a case of stick with him or take it away.

if your taking it out of there, it’s finished for this year, I think you may then think of it as a winter project and have it done for spring 23
 
It either pays or it doesent really isn it,maybe took on thinking it was easier than it is , but sure draw a line on it so be my view
 
There is no money in a job like that , and always hassle and hidden surprises.
It will never be done , once it goes on the long finger in a panel beaters forget it.
Im sure the guy has best of intentions
Sell it as it is / break it or get somebody to fix it. Its simple as that
 
That's something I've never understood. The "there's no money in a job like that" and I've gotten plenty of that with this job.

I'm not asking for a discount or a special deal or deferred payments, the shop will be paid for the work they will do.

Frustrating to hear as a potential customer that needs a job doing. Are you in business to provide a service or only pick and chose the jobs you can make money on.

It's a common theme with trades people. Even though they will be paid for the work it "has to be worth my time". Beyond me.

Why isn't this guy doing his regular "profitable" work Monday to Friday 9 to 5 then working on my car in the evenings for a couple of hours each week to get it done and out of there. I don't think that's asking too much. If he'd done that 10 months ago it would probably have been done well before now. Another common theme with trades people, afraid of a hard days work.
 
AndyC said:
That's something I've never understood. The "there's no money in a job like that" and I've gotten plenty of that with this job.

I'm not asking for a discount or a special deal or deferred payments, the shop will be paid for the work they will do.

Frustrating to hear as a potential customer that needs a job doing. Are you in business to provide a service or only pick and chose the jobs you can make money on.

It's a common theme with trades people. Even though they will be paid for the work it "has to be worth my time". Beyond me.

Why isn't this guy doing his regular "profitable" work Monday to Friday 9 to 5 then working on my car in the evenings for a couple of hours each week to get it done and out of there. I don't think that's asking too much. If he'd done that 10 months ago it would probably have been done well before now. Another common theme with trades people, afraid of a hard days work.
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The no money in it thing is load of nonesense, you as a customer ask for a price, he as the service supplier either says No I don’t want to do it or he needs to price it where he is making a profit… you then decide whether you want him to do it or not.. its very simple..
all this pricking around with lads to try get some work done seems to be an Irish thing
 
Not knowing where the car is, but knowing what can be done. Have you contacted the likes of Caldwell? I know they've more or less gone to insurance and trade stuff only, but trade don't pay insurance prices and you may have an in if you know someone?
 
AndyC said:
This will be a long one but I'm asking 3 things 1) am I being unreasonable 2) have I expected too much 3) options


I crashed my Type R in Dec 2014 while down in Italy. Pretty extensive damage and a total write off. Shipped it back to Ireland in January 2015 and put it in storage while I decided what I wanted to do with it.I knew I wanted to repair it (just couldn't let the damn thing die) but over time life gets in the way and also I didn’t have the funds available. March 2019 the search for a bodyshop willing to take on an extensive rebuild (frame rail replacement, any rust repaired, both sills replaced and full respray) began. Over 2 years and a dozen or so bodyshops telling me “its not worth it, too busy for a job like that, no profit in that for me, not worth my time” etc etc in July 2021 I finally got a guy who was willing to do the work. I spoke on the phone with this guy August 9th 2021 (exactly one year today). We discussed the repair and the work involved and what I wanted and budget etc etc. Now I specifically made it clear to this guy that I did not want a scenario whereby if he took possession of my car that it would be left sitting for weeks or months and he said no that wouldn’t happen. He said as soon as I got the car to him he would start on it straight away. Great I thought. We discussed a time frame for completion and he said 6 to 8 weeks. I sourced a front cut for the replacement frame rail and had it delivered from Donegal to his garage on September 8th 2021. He took possession of my car on October 6th 2021. Given the 6 to 8 weeks timeframe he quoted back in August 2021 I was happy to possibly have the car painted and ready for an engine by the end of the year ready to start on an engine build in January 2022.


4 weeks later, December 8th 2021 I decided to visit the bodyshop and see what progress had been made. I found my car and the front cut left outside at the back of the garage. Not happy. Spoke with the guy and he said he had been very busy and just hadn’t gotten around to starting it yet. Not much I could do or say at this point except to ask when would he be starting it. He said the following Monday so that would be December 13th 2021. I left the garage hoping this was just a temporary hold up.


Christmas 2021 goes by, so January 17th I go back to the bodyshop expecting to see some progress. Nope. My car and the front cut are still in the same place outside. He said 3 of his staff had gotten Covid so he had to close his garage and couldn’t open after the Christmas break. Again not much I can say or do about that. God damn Covid. So again I asked when are you going to start it. He says the following Monday January 24th. I asked if this was definite and he said “absolutely, drop in to me next Monday and you’ll see the car up on the jig”. So, rather than appearing to be impatient and not wanting to put the guy under pressure or be “”that type” of customer I gave it a further 2 weeks before dropping into the bodyshop again. This is now February 7th 2022. Still my car was outside and nothing done. Spoke to the guy and he said the frame guy had been in a bar fight and was due to make a court appearance so he had no staff to start on my car. The excuses are starting now but again what could I say or do other than to once again ask when would the job be started. He gave an all too familiar answer of “next Monday (which would be February 14th 2022) I promise you the frame guy will start pulling it”. So once again not wanting to be “ that customer” and just leave the guy to it to get on with the job (each time I was there he would say “drop in to me anytime to check on progress”) I waited another 4 weeks and went back to the bodyshop on March 16th 2022. Work not started and the car was still outside at the back of the garage. The excuse this time was he and his family got Covid so he had to close the bodyshop and he had a backlog of cars to get through. I’m getting pretty annoyed now at this point since he now has possession of my car for 6 months with no work done. (specifically what I said to him I did not want to happen). So once again I asked when is the car going up on the jig and I get the “”Next Monday” answer. That would mean March 21st 2022.


Once again I gave it 4 weeks before going back there on April 11th 2022. This time I see my car is up on the frame machine (it went up on the jig April 8th 2022). We have a chat and I said “”OK we are finally up and running on this”. Yes he says "we’ll get her done and out of here". At this point the car is just bolted to the frame machine and no actual work is done so I ask when will you start pulling the frame. Again “”next Monday the frame lad will start on that”. So that means April 18th 2022. Again I leave it 4 weeks before going back to check on progress on May 13th 2022. I enter the garage and very little work and been done. Just a few spot welds had been drilled out to remove the front panels (radiator support bars, headlight surround etc etc). The guy wasn’t there this time and I spoke to a staff member. I commented that progress was slow and drilling out some spot welds can’t have taken a month. Anyway I left again angry and disappointed. I waited yes you guessed it another 4 weeks before going back to check on progress. So I arrived at the garage June 14th 2022 to see that no further work had been done. The guy was there this time and I said "So nothing done, no progress". He said "I'm getting to it." I just laughed and he repeated "no no we'll get to it, we'll get to it" but at this stage I had had enough. He now had my car for 8 months and had drilled out a few spot welds. So I lost it with him on his shop floor in front of his staff. There was cursing and finger pointing by me and he just stood there in silence. When I was finished he was all apologetic like really apologetic and promised to get the car done. He said “”I get it, you just want your car back, it’s probably stressing you out”. I explained that based on his original time frame from 8 months ago I had made plans for track days in 2022 and car meets and had made enquiries about securing a storage space (which are now no longer available) etc etc and these plans are now all screwed up . Again he apologised and promised to get the car done. I returned to the garage 5 weeks later on July 20th 2022 this time expecting to see some real progress. I had hoped my rant had finally got this guy to sort his sh*t out. My hopes were up. Well I sh*t you not but he had taken my car off the frame machine and had bolted a VW UP to it. So after 8 months we are now going backwards. I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t even rant again I was so dumfounded. I said “eh so you’ve taken the car off the jig now”. He says “yeah, I just have this quick frame pull to do on this UP and yours will be going back on the jig”. I asked when. He says yes you guessed it next Monday. I asked once again when will the car be finished and he said by end of September 2022. So I said “OK when the car goes back on the jig next Monday you’re full time on this car and it’s going to be done by end of September. Is that what you're telling me?”. He says “Oh yes its done by end of September. Well I am going on holidays first week in August for a week just so you know”. I said “but you’re still sticking to end of September completion”. He said Yes.


As of today August 9th 2022 I have no idea if any further work had been done before he left for holidays or even if the car is back up on the jig since I was there last on July 20th 2022. Not going to disturb his holidays to find out. I’ll be going to the bodyshop either next week or week after and if my car is still on the ground and not back up on the jig I really have no idea what to do from that point.

So guys opinions and comments please. Am I being unreasonable? Am I being impatient? Just suck it up and it will be done when it’s done? In a couple of weeks he will have my car 10 months and other than a few spot welds nothing is done.
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I'd have taken back the car, too many stories of lads like that promising the world but never gets done
 
JohnRA said:
Not knowing where the car is, but knowing what can be done. Have you contacted the likes of Caldwell? I know they've more or less gone to insurance and trade stuff only, but trade don't pay insurance prices and you may have an in if you know someone?
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Another person contacted me via PM and mentioned these guys. I'll be keeping them in mind. Thanks.
 
AndyC said:
Another person contacted me via PM and mentioned these guys. I'll be keeping them in mind. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Have you tried Westley motors in Dublin? I've been in a few times delivering oil. They have all the equipment and multiple lads working there. I reckon the issue is leaving it with independent lads, they have to get money in the door ASAP so a job like yours will take up valuable time, and instead they prioritise the stuff that pays quicker as they are on their own.

Could be worthwhile going to bigger shops with multiple panel beaters and painters. Such as Dennings, Westley/Motoworld etc. That way, while other lads do the bread and butter work, 1 or 2 lads can focus on your car and its not affecting their workload too much

Kris in Classic Car Welding in Dublin takes great pride in his work on rusty old stuff, he might know someone who'd be willing to take on your car. Kris himself is big into cars and really enjoys restoring stuff. Could be worth putting the feelers out.
 
Ah Man- what a nightmare for you.
I'm not sure what price he quoted or you agreed on- but speaking as a panel beater with 30 years experience, that particular scenario is well ,a complete fucking nightmare.
Chassis work is difficult with new legs, bulkheads etc, but with a front clip,ie second hand parts it almost doubles the amount of work needed.
I would say that guy took it on as he probably wasn't too busy at that particular time, and thought he could get it done in a reasonable time frame, and then sh*t happened and he got busy etc.
Not good for you.
The way I see it is like this...
There's roughly 40 hours to straighten the frame( depending on how bad it was hit like there is ALWAYS damage further back into the car than first appears) into a position where it's then prepared to remove necessary panels, chassis legs ,valance panels( all big jobs) and while you could say(chop it off with a power saw, all these are tucked in under bulkheads,floor, window frame etc.
Then there's roughly 40 hours in removing necessary panels from front clip.fooking nightmare as there's no chopping involved here, just drilling with spot-weld drill bits,(not cheap) probably go through 20/25 of these.
This has to be done carefully as these are your replacement panels, carefully=time.
Then probably another ,30/40 hours in preparation for welding, alignment of legs, Valence's, and other panels for welding, measuring underneath of car, test fitting of ALL parts, doors, wings, bonnet, headlights,front bumper etc to make sure top half of car is also square, and welding,cleanup and prepwork for painting.
So , roughly 120 hours of labor at anywhere between 50-75 Euros per hour.
And that's a senior man, with considerable experience at it full tilt for 3 weeks solid.
There's not many garages in this country that can afford that.
The problem with work like this is it has to be done carefully,with constant checking of alignment as parts tend to shift when being welded.And your dealing with chassis legs which have to be within 3-5mm tolerance of spec or car will never be right.
I am not taking this guy's side(wa*ker for promising the undeliverable) I've had similar experiences with other aspects of the motor trade.
This type of work is extremely rare these days.
It's just not done as it's too time consuming and therefore expensive for insurance companies to pay for it.
During the war, when I was not too long out of my time, there were two( qualified panel beaters ) of us working on a top of the range bench(Chief) with Lazer alignment measuring, working daily on heavy hit cars, legs bulkheads,roofs etc.it was normal back then.
This is a dying trade.there are NO apprentice panel beaters anymore.no one wants to get into the trade.
Unfortunately this means greater demand on a diminishing skilled workforce, and what we get is cherry picking of the "nice" work -bumpers, couple of doors, side of a car, the odd respray etc.
Where I work at the moment it's relentless, constant flow of work, booked up for months in advance and we only do work for ONE insurance company.
I couldn't even recommend someone for you.
But what I will tell you is this...
Considering that some people say this guy turns out good work, if I was you, knowing what I know about the state of the trade in the country, I would say to you to let him do it and get your car back. I know, I know- I can actually hear everyone screaming at me😂, but I'm not too sure you will find someone else to do this work for you.
Maybe have a sit down with him and get a realistic plan in place, he knows you are freaked out and I'm sure he actually wants to do the job but has been unable to do it in a timely manner.
I had a similar situation with an engine build ,guts of six months after being told 4/5weeks.
Got to a stage where I was ringing around trying to get some one else to do it, but in the end , stuck with the guy and I'm delighted that I did.engine hasn't skipped a beat since I got it back.im so happy I didn't give into the frustration and pull the job.
I. Really hope you get your car fixed soon and properly.
Ben
 
Adam-r said:
Have you tried Westley motors in Dublin? I've been in a few times delivering oil. They have all the equipment and multiple lads working there. I reckon the issue is leaving it with independent lads, they have to get money in the door ASAP so a job like yours will take up valuable time, and instead they prioritise the stuff that pays quicker as they are on their own.

Could be worthwhile going to bigger shops with multiple panel beaters and painters. Such as Dennings, Westley/Motoworld etc. That way, while other lads do the bread and butter work, 1 or 2 lads can focus on your car and its not affecting their workload too much

Kris in Classic Car Welding in Dublin takes great pride in his work on rusty old stuff, he might know someone who'd be willing to take on your car. Kris himself is big into cars and really enjoys restoring stuff. Could be worth putting the feelers out.
Click to expand...
I tried Dennings and other major bodyshops and none where interested in taking on the job. It was the same answer everywhere, no profit in it, would just take up too much time/staff/resources/materials in the shop.

I following Classic Car Welding on social media and considered sending them an email for advice or maybe a contact of someone who may take the job on.
 
ben1973 said:
Ah Man- what a nightmare for you.
I'm not sure what price he quoted or you agreed on- but speaking as a panel beater with 30 years experience, that particular scenario is well ,a complete fucking nightmare.
Chassis work is difficult with new legs, bulkheads etc, but with a front clip,ie second hand parts it almost doubles the amount of work needed.
I would say that guy took it on as he probably wasn't too busy at that particular time, and thought he could get it done in a reasonable time frame, and then sh*t happened and he got busy etc.
Not good for you.
The way I see it is like this...
There's roughly 40 hours to straighten the frame( depending on how bad it was hit like there is ALWAYS damage further back into the car than first appears) into a position where it's then prepared to remove necessary panels, chassis legs ,valance panels( all big jobs) and while you could say(chop it off with a power saw, all these are tucked in under bulkheads,floor, window frame etc.
Then there's roughly 40 hours in removing necessary panels from front clip.fooking nightmare as there's no chopping involved here, just drilling with spot-weld drill bits,(not cheap) probably go through 20/25 of these.
This has to be done carefully as these are your replacement panels, carefully=time.
Then probably another ,30/40 hours in preparation for welding, alignment of legs, Valence's, and other panels for welding, measuring underneath of car, test fitting of ALL parts, doors, wings, bonnet, headlights,front bumper etc to make sure top half of car is also square, and welding,cleanup and prepwork for painting.
So , roughly 120 hours of labor at anywhere between 50-75 Euros per hour.
And that's a senior man, with considerable experience at it full tilt for 3 weeks solid.
There's not many garages in this country that can afford that.
The problem with work like this is it has to be done carefully,with constant checking of alignment as parts tend to shift when being welded.And your dealing with chassis legs which have to be within 3-5mm tolerance of spec or car will never be right.
I am not taking this guy's side(wa*ker for promising the undeliverable) I've had similar experiences with other aspects of the motor trade.
This type of work is extremely rare these days.
It's just not done as it's too time consuming and therefore expensive for insurance companies to pay for it.
During the war, when I was not too long out of my time, there were two( qualified panel beaters ) of us working on a top of the range bench(Chief) with Lazer alignment measuring, working daily on heavy hit cars, legs bulkheads,roofs etc.it was normal back then.
This is a dying trade.there are NO apprentice panel beaters anymore.no one wants to get into the trade.
Unfortunately this means greater demand on a diminishing skilled workforce, and what we get is cherry picking of the "nice" work -bumpers, couple of doors, side of a car, the odd respray etc.
Where I work at the moment it's relentless, constant flow of work, booked up for months in advance and we only do work for ONE insurance company.
I couldn't even recommend someone for you.
But what I will tell you is this...
Considering that some people say this guy turns out good work, if I was you, knowing what I know about the state of the trade in the country, I would say to you to let him do it and get your car back. I know, I know- I can actually hear everyone screaming at me😂, but I'm not too sure you will find someone else to do this work for you.
Maybe have a sit down with him and get a realistic plan in place, he knows you are freaked out and I'm sure he actually wants to do the job but has been unable to do it in a timely manner.
I had a similar situation with an engine build ,guts of six months after being told 4/5weeks.
Got to a stage where I was ringing around trying to get some one else to do it, but in the end , stuck with the guy and I'm delighted that I did.engine hasn't skipped a beat since I got it back.im so happy I didn't give into the frustration and pull the job.
I. Really hope you get your car fixed soon and properly.
Ben
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Never a truer word spoken Ben. I agree with you on everything.

In terms of the damage, the drivers side frame rail is bent about half way in. I'll see if I can attach a picture to this post. Prior to the car going to the bodyshop I had the interior and dashboard removed so as to make removal and welding near the bulk head for the new frame rail easier. There is no visible damage further back from the bulk head or underneath floor area. Just what can be seen in the attached pictures. I'm not a panel beater but I have watched 100s of hours of major chassis repair videos on youtube and just pulling this leg for removal does not look like a big job to me.

My next visit to the bodyshop will involve a serious conversation on where the job goes from here because I can't allow this to continue indefinitely.
 

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In all fairness - that doesn't look that bad Andy. I see where your coming from.. I'll put it this way- I've fixed worse without replacing a chassis leg. The steel in them can be heated up to around 500 degrees Centigrade or "cherry red" without causing structural damage to the steel itself.
Have a chat with that guy and hopefully he'll pull his finger out.
I really hope you get her fixed soon.
Best of luck
Ben
 
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