How much power is to much

Here you go. 3 years earlier. More or less standard STI I think at that stage. Yes it's 2.0, your 2.5 would have spooled up turbo a lot faster from what I hear.

Yes these graphs tell you how much power/torque you have at various rpm's but the thing they don't tell you is how long it took turbo to spool up to these levels i.e 30 seconds, 2 minutes...

We really need a new graphing measure that just shows how long a particular engine takes to go from idle to full power at redline given some standardized load on the wheels (ie not free wheeling with no load). This would give an indication of the lag of a turbo setup. Maybe there is such a graph you can get?....

20121005211644.jpg
 
geogan said:
Here's a dyno printout for the HKS GT2835 on my car from 2009. Was it you that got this done Animal Spec C when you installed it?

This illustrates what I mentioned in previous posts about not reaching peak power until way up top of RPM range which you would never normally use on a normal road drive. The overall peak torque RPM range is very good though with this setup reaching it at about 5000rpm and keeping it this high way up until over 7600rpm. The thing I would be confused about though is this - since torque is constant in this range and this is what gives you pulling power than what is horsepower involved in and what affect does this increasing from 260 to 360hp in this range actually do? Don't know this answer myself...

I also have a pre-install dyno from Scooby Clinic if anyone wants to compare them,.

On topic enough?

20121005211624.jpg
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The way ive read the post is that he has a printout for the turbo on another car and is asking is it yours????
 
geogans posts are hard to make out at times,(no offence)but his reg in on that dyno sheet and my car was 400/400 iirc with that turbo and my setup
 
KENC said:
The way ive read the post is that he has a printout for the turbo on another car and is asking is it yours????
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That is a dyno for my car. I got it with the car. I was asking did Animal supply this to warrster when he sold him the stuff. Looks like it was produced by warrster when he got all the turbo parts installed by East Coast Customs... yes it's 2 litre.

I didn't realize there was so much difference in torque between the 2.0 and the 2.5.... 400ft/lbs is a lot isn't it!

Is that with a standard 2.5 turbo or with the gt35 in a 2.5 though that you get 400ft/lbs?
 
i had a fully built 2.5 with supporting mods and made 400/400 on that turbo set up it was then removed and sold to steve turbo,hks twin scrool headers,hks downpipe,sump dipstick i removed and went rotated gt30,geogan has the car been mapped since new clutch fitted?
 
Animal spec-c said:
i had a fully built 2.5 with supporting mods and made 400/400 on that turbo set up it was then removed and sold to steve turbo,hks twin scrool headers,hks downpipe,sump dipstick i removed and went rotated gt30,geogan has the car been mapped since new clutch fitted?
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Right so far from standard setup required to get to 400/400 then... :thumbsup:

No car hasn't been re-mapped. I hear JGM is coming over at end of this month so I'll see how funds are. The last time he came over there was a mix up and I didn't know where he was doing the mapping so missed him. There is a Turbosmart E-Boost controller in it and it's set to just 1.1bar (because of clutch slipping at time of last map). I presume the way it goes is I have to increase this controller to whatever boost I'd like (or can) and then JGM adjusts the maps to make sure it's working without knock etc. What do you reckon would be safe to set it too? 1.5bar? Or more?
 
no just leave it alone untill he come over let him make any adjustments needed he will do everything neessary its upto you just to tell him how far you want to push the std engine he will advise of course but at the end of the day the final deission is yours remember you have a std engine.some say good for 400 i know steve was planning to push as far as he ould and wanted 400
 
A 2.5 makes Torque real easy, 400ftlbs is achievable with very little. Only thing then is the 2.5s standard rods and pistons arent too comfortable at this, and after that the blocks are prone to failing.

But you have 2ltr so thats not of any real use to you, iirc when Warrister had the car, i dont think he ever got to a "FINISHED" stage with it, first i think he needed a clutch, then for some reason i have it in my head that he was on about injectors to be fitted... i cant be sure but i think i remember something like this.

The 2ltr wont make the Torque of the 2.5, and wont spool it like the 2.5 either.

All in all you may have to make a decision on that turbo, and decide maybe its not suited to a 2ltr, from what you have been saying it doesnt seem that you are too impressed with it.
Trust me when i tell you that if you go for the right set up, the end result isnt what you described above somewhere.

Regards boost, when your car is mapped correctly you can sell that boost controller, there is no need for it and they are imo only a stop gate item.
 
Animal spec-c said:
no just the twin scrool conversion turbo,headers,downpipe,sump,dipstick...im puzzled if you say u have a sports cat???
look through this link shows twin scrool downpipes would be similarhttp://www.google.ie/search?q=hks+twin+scroll+downpipe&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=nZtvUOGuII66hAfnkoG4Dw&ved=0CFoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=675 ...think you need to check what you actually have, the experts will be able to answer this can a normal open mouth down pipe be mated to a twin scrool turbo ? if it could would spool be reduced and make for a shite set up if the sports cat you think you have is not twin scrool is it best to remove it
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Animal spec-c, regarding the confusion about what exhaust was in my car , found this from warrster when I asked him a year ago:

"It's a full Milltek system with 100 cell Sports Cat (in the downpipe)...
http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.products.cfm?variantid=106
http://www.millteksport.com/hiflow.sports.cats.cfm
It's a full 2.5" or 2.75" system (not 100% sure which one), turbo back, originally from Litchfields in the UK, as fitted to the MK1 Type 25. The manifold is HKS (heatwrapped). ...it's much quieter that my previous exhaust..."

Looks like he got rid of the downpipe you sold him with this... and from Milltek site that is specifically for STI Spec C (Twin-Scroll Turbo) 2003 and later...
 
KENC said:
A 2.5 makes Torque real easy, 400ftlbs is achievable with very little. Only thing then is the 2.5s standard rods and pistons arent too comfortable at this, and after that the blocks are prone to failing.

But you have 2ltr so thats not of any real use to you, iirc when Warrister had the car, i dont think he ever got to a "FINISHED" stage with it, first i think he needed a clutch, then for some reason i have it in my head that he was on about injectors to be fitted... i cant be sure but i think i remember something like this.

The 2ltr wont make the Torque of the 2.5, and wont spool it like the 2.5 either.

All in all you may have to make a decision on that turbo, and decide maybe its not suited to a 2ltr, from what you have been saying it doesnt seem that you are too impressed with it.
Trust me when i tell you that if you go for the right set up, the end result isnt what you described above somewhere.

Regards boost, when your car is mapped correctly you can sell that boost controller, there is no need for it and they are imo only a stop gate item.
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Yes the bigger displacement would help with torque and spool alright. I have heard that they seem to suffer from piston ring failures way more than 2.0 engine though for some reason.

Yes he got the clutch and it's in it. He tried to sell me some bigger injectors that he had but didn't install yet, but I didn't think I needed them at the time so I didn't take them. Maybe I should have but I don't think I am anywhere near maxing out the duty cycle of the standard injectors - i could be wrong though - must try an remember to ask JGM if it looks like injectors are near maxed out when he does the remap. At least it has the Walbro to pump enough fuel at them if I do need to increase size... it also has the adjustable Tomei fuel pressure regulator installed and I have bought a matching Tomei fuel pressure gauge which plugs into it to give pressure readings and allow adjustment - didn't install it yet though. I wanted to see how fuel pressure is - currently unknown. Should be about 3bar standard or should it be set higher? Need to decide this before map - that's something that would i presume drastically affect fueling and would need remap after changing.

The boost controller was mapped for - it's just handy because there are two settings - high and low (as well as other adjustments) so for example I could set high to 1.5bar and get it remapped at this setting. Then I can set the low setting to say 1.0bar so then it will limit it to this any time I want this maximum level. It can also be turned off easily which manual says makes it behave as standard one. Anyway it's the other adjustments I have to look into - they allow adjustment of things like set points (solenoid duty cycle), gate pressure and sensitivity to change response of turbocharger and boost levels. Don't think these have been optimized yet with this setup...i definitely didn't touch them yet anyway... think i'll do this when I get a chance...
 
ok thats cool at least you know what you have is correct,i think you should touch base with with your mapper by the sounds of things jgm and he will advise what you should do after he speaks with you, i think you will find that steve got them injectors after been advised his will max out it would be better to leave some head room rather than running your injectors at 100%.

there may be other things that you an do to make the mapping go smoother but as i said touch base with jgm well in advance beause if you turn up and are held back by injetors you will be really p1ssed and have to fork out for another mapping sessions that will be in the new year get her all sorted in one go and dont leave anything to chance
 
Animal spec-c said:
ok thats cool at least you know what you have is correct,i think you should touch base with with your mapper by the sounds of things jgm and he will advise what you should do after he speaks with you, i think you will find that steve got them injectors after been advised his will max out it would be better to leave some head room rather than running your injectors at 100%.

there may be other things that you an do to make the mapping go smoother but as i said touch base with jgm well in advance beause if you turn up and are held back by injetors you will be really p1ssed and have to for out for another mapping sessions that will be in the new year get her all sorted in one go and dont leave anything to chance
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yeah agree I would be inclined to fit those larger injectors before a remap
 
Animal spec-c said:
ok thats cool at least you know what you have is correct,i think you should touch base with with your mapper by the sounds of things jgm and he will advise what you should do after he speaks with you, i think you will find that steve got them injectors after been advised his will max out it would be better to leave some head room rather than running your injectors at 100%.

there may be other things that you an do to make the mapping go smoother but as i said touch base with jgm well in advance beause if you turn up and are held back by injetors you will be really p1ssed and have to for out for another mapping sessions that will be in the new year get her all sorted in one go and dont leave anything to chance
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Ok. Yes that would be very annoying. I can't imagine they would be maxed though but... If the injectors are standard that's pink STI (550cc) isn't it? Don't know if it's possible to check engine to see what I have...

I heard that the Blue 650cc injectors from a 2.5 STI would be better. Would these be recommended for more duty cycle headroom? Cost at the moment is an issue - don't even bother telling me i need 800cc €1000 injectors :cuckoo: I would want set for way less, second-hand even :dance:

Haven't looked into injectors much - don't know if they are easier/harder to change yourself than the sparkplugs (which i have done before).

They would certainly immediately change the air/fuel ratios though without remap - i wonder can ECU compensate enough to drive with bigger injectors until remap is done?

Can I use ECUexplorer to check current duty cycle on injectors anyone know to see how maxed out they
are?
 
driving off boost you should be fine i fitted sard 800cc injetors and used them from 360bhp up till around 475bhp then with my new build i opted for id1000s.

you can sell the pinks and maybe get 100 towards a new or 2nd hand set try steve he may still have the ones he offered you.

your best off speaking with simon one email to him will put you on the right track hes the mapper at the end of the day he will tell you what you need based on your requirements
 
iirc while the car was being mapped the clutch slipped, and he was advised to get bigger injectors for the next session when he had clutch in...

Now, you can get those injectors you have sent over to Lateral Performance, get them Modified and flow matched and i think... THINK they come back as 850 or 950cc... Altezza Dan on here just got that done so he can give you an idea on price, but i think 180gbp for modifying
Its the most cost effective solution "IF" injectors are Needed.

You really need to get talking to JGM as i think he was the last to map the car, and if so he may remember it.

I wouldnt drive the car with bigger injectors in without map, i would be worried about getting bore wash.

On the level you are at iirc its common to have reg turned up to about 3.5bar static (vacum pipe off)

Also worth checking vacum pipe doent have petrol in it, if so your reg diaphram is fooked.
 
I was on the verge of buying that car and was told it needed the injectors and I had them included in a deal at €6,500 before you bought the car ahead of me.. IIRC the clutch was done but it was seriously juddery from a start, did it calm down since?

As the lads have said, contact jgm and see what he says. When I spoke to him about the car, he recommended the injectors and then a front mount to go with it to make the absolute most of the setup :thumbsup:
 
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