Secondary Air system failures?

Zheiko

Zheiko

Octane Boostaholics
Info about my car: MY07 2.0RX Hawkeye Sedan

So, this is quite big topic, and I have heard plenty of ppl are having issues with this. Frankly, up until I started getting the damn errors, I have never heard of it.

So here is list of errors my OBD reader returns:

P2433 - Secondary Air Injection System Air Flow/Pressure Sensor Circuit High Bank 1
P2444 - Secondary Air Injection System Pump Stuck ON
P1410 - Secondary Air Injection System Switching Valve Stuck Open

these are the most common ones and I got also one, that doesnt seem to be related to the whole thing:

p0510 - Closed Throttle Position Switch Malfunction

Now, there might be several solutions to these problems, that some of you might have tried and worked?

Two solutions I have been told would be, complete removal as its useless, but that would need programable ECU where the faults can be removed. Not sure how that applies to my 2.0R, if I can get different ECU and whether it can get mapped for my car? This would be possibly cheaper solution, as ECU costs about 200-250yoyos and same pricerange goes for Mapping, so total would be about 5-600 yoyos.

Second solution is more expensive, 1500yoyos, and would mean whole system replacement, pump and both valves, possibly even the lead hoses.

Any advices are welcome. I was thinking about disassembling and full cleaning of the system? Could that work?
 
cleaning the system may work in the short term but usually when the pump fails the whole system needs replacing probally best to try a ecu and map it though dont know anyone who has gone down this route with a 2.0 you may be able to pick up some stuff second hand aidrafana on here had the same problem but he replaced the valves but maybe he is worth a pm for info
 
those feckers
I Think Dave / RSR can turn them off :thumbsup:
 

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Problem is with 2.0 Non turbo engines and their ecu.
Zheiko, as per pm, check what model of ecu you have and do research online, as it is possible, that you dont need second ecu.
Denso are possible to do, but those ones are at wrx versions.
Whole problem is with valves and condensation of moisture on them. After a while you are getting small rust patches there and thats Why it is getting stuck.
I have same problem with mine now, decided to clean whole system as it will be cheapest option for now.
Have some tools, just need to get more alcohol (have special one which is removing all moisture when drying, dont remember name).
 
it's hard to know what advice to give you really....
I tried the cleaning 'fix' and the CEL came on after about 20 miles. I rang the dealer who did it and they just told me out straight that their fix didn't work and we'd probably have to replace the whole thing.

The ecu in mine is Hitachi A18000R6A. That can't be modified, so you can't map out or blank out the error codes associated with these valves like you can with a turbo.

You might be lucky and cleaning the valves might work for you.
Your other alternative is to replace one or both valves as necessary, and the compressor if necessary. Here again, you have the option of taking a chance on second hand valves or buying new from a dealer.

I decided to replace with new. I couldn't find the valves second hand anyway.

When I had that done, I had to replace the O2 sensor as well.

Whatever you do, I'd advise you to care of this now. I had not worried too much about the valves bringing the CEL on because the valves don't do a whole lot for the car anyway. So I didn't take action for a few months, but by the time I had gone to a dealer, tried the cleaning, and then decided to replace them, there was about 6 months gone by, and I think myself that's how i ended up having to replace the compressor and also the O2 sensor. I think the fault in the valves sticking open allowed fumes back through the system and this caused premature failure of the compressor and the O2 sensor.

I also got in touch with ecutek and ai autosport told me that they don't support Subaru any more.

Anyway, that's how I got on..........best of luck to ya...
 
Great info there Adrian
The Hitachi ECU seems to be a pain in the hole
I wonder why they fitted this in the n/a cars
 
hard to know, Colm,......i found my old thread there, I had forgotten what I had spent to get this valve thing fixed..... :new_puppy_dog_eyes:

On a side note, I had to get the NCT backdated 9 months by the time I got through it. Given the situation with NCT these days, I'm not sure I could drive around with the NCT out for 9 months, so I'd probably have to take the car off the road...?
 
Well, I tried to look what ECU I have, but considering its N/A I am 90% sure its Hitachi. Unfortunatelly, I could not get in, so I will drive it to garage tomorrow and open the box to see.

Question is tho, can I install different ECU onto N/A car?

Also, you have mentioned that O2 sensor had gone because of the fumes coming back through(possibly). So technically, it would be easier, to just remove the whole thing now and seal the holes and live with the errors?

Also, all these things are based on Sensor, that gives I/O output, am I right? If thats the case, would not there be possibility to just connect some wires that it always gives the correct values and basically 'cheat' the sensor into thinking all is running fine?
 
Adrian: thanks a bunch for your input, I have read through your thread back in the day... those are really mad money, and I would be off selling the car for carparts... srsly, I cant even afford paying that, knowing that it will eventually come back...

anyone has any contacts to see if getting different ECU for my car would be the option?
 
Id guess ECU replacement isnt an option worth exploring much
I read somewhere alientech can flash them I dont think they can but read it somewhere and here is the Irish agent id start there http://www.alientech-to.it/index.php/en/europa/ireland
but I dont think anybody can flash the hitachi ecu and thats the problem

Heres something that may be worthing checking if it would help
not sure but you could try and contact th esellers or manafacturers to see if it will work

http://www.uobd2.net/wholesale/allscanner-subaru-ssm-iii.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FdB9Bb75CY
 
what would be the reasons for full ECU replacement not being worth exploring? I mean, there are two kinds of ECU in Subarus, Hitachi and Denso, if I find from breaking DENSO ECU, would it be even possible to wire it up instead of my HITACHI and then remap?

Now, I am currently looking at price of minimum 1500euro to replace the whole secondary air system, so anything that will be cheaper than that is suitable solution
 
Ecutek is an option but map is needed as well with it. Those one can be easily mapped by most mappers in ireland.
 
Seems like i am fooked then...
Sent from Nokia Lumia 930 using Tapatalk
 

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Hi Zheiko
I wouldn't know about changing the ECU....I'm sure it's probably possible, but you'd probably end up spending a lot of money doing it as well.

A friend of mine also suggested fooling the sensor by connecting wire A with wire B etc and/or removing the valves and replacing with blanking plates.

TBH, I thought about it but decided that it wasn't for me. Here's why:

Just putting in the plates and putting up with the CEL being on means you won't know if there is anything else going wrong in the car. E.g. your O2 sensor might just go anyway because of age/mileage, but you won't know because your CEL is on 24/7.

Anyone who looks in your engine bay, or brings the car to a garage to have it checked may notice the valves missing or the 'customised' wiring. At the end of the day, your car (and mine) is a non turbo car, and the last thing that you will want to do is give the impression that you've been messing about with it trying to get more power out of it. It's different if the car was a turbo model. Turbos like the WRX and STi are all about power, so no one will blink at a mod or two or three or four, and will probably think the more mods that are there, the cooler the car is. IMO, a non turbo car is best left as standard in the engine bay. Making it look cool on the outside is fine in my book, but mechanically, I'd leave it as is.

But that's just me.

If you can try to get second hand valves, then maybe that's your best bet. I tried but couldn't. Seems to be only turbo cars in the breakers yards these days.

If I were you, I'd be more worried about the NCT. Mine failed the NCT probably because the O2 sensor was gone, even though it was very marginally over the limit. I don't know how you would fare if the boys in blue pulled you over and your NCT out of date. Try get this sorted before your NCT due date just in case the car fails it.

A.

PS Ciaran and Colm mentioned that I gave good info above. That info is only what I gathered myself from talking to Buckshot, DaveLegacy and Gerry (and probably others that I can't remember off the top of my head). I thank them for their help that time and am happy to share with you now.



[quote author=Zheiko link=topic=44168.msg509878#msg509878 date=1425777892]
Well, I tried to look what ECU I have, but considering its N/A I am 90% sure its Hitachi. Unfortunatelly, I could not get in, so I will drive it to garage tomorrow and open the box to see.

Question is tho, can I install different ECU onto N/A car?

Also, you have mentioned that O2 sensor had gone because of the fumes coming back through(possibly). So technically, it would be easier, to just remove the whole thing now and seal the holes and live with the errors?

Also, all these things are based on Sensor, that gives I/O output, am I right? If thats the case, would not there be possibility to just connect some wires that it always gives the correct values and basically 'cheat' the sensor into thinking all is running fine?
[/quote]
 
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