The headline Subaru executives didn't want to read

F

FRAWLS

Middle Lane Hogs
How could Subaru have got it so wrong with our beloved Impreza. There's the Focus RS with waiting lists in the UK :dontknow: and over here you can't even buy a petrol Impreza anymore :icon_redface:


http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Ford-Focus/239094/

Also it looks like the new Focus RS is going to be driven to within an inch of its life in an attempt to set the new fwd lap time around the Nurburgring and by all accounts a sub 8 min lap is not only the target but quite possibly achievable further confirming its bang per buck credentials and making STI's and EVO's look very overpriced and surely hurting their sales now and their residuals in the future :icon_hang:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Ford-Focus/239023/

Frawls
 
sti costs 26k in uk the focus is 25...considering the sti is quiker and offers awd i dont see it being over priced against the RS
 
Haven't they already put it around the ring and weren't as quick as the Megane but they're going back with track toyos this time?

Think they'll do well to go sub 8min to be honest.
 
[quote author=STi Brian link=topic=14101.msg174424#msg174424 date=1238770314]
Haven't they already put it around the ring and weren't as quick as the Megane but they're going back with track toyos this time?

Think they'll do well to go sub 8min to be honest.
[/quote]

spot on Brian the r26r comes with those standard there not even an option on the RS...plus weight is not aa big an issue around the ring where you have big torque to carry you up the mountain and loads of straights I'm willing to bet the r26r will still be quicker around a normal tight circuit
 
The RS is quite a bit quicker than the STI. The Renault is quicker than the STI too! Read this review form Chris Harris ex EVO contributor and editor of Drivers Republic. This guy knows what he's doing. Click the link then scroll down the page to the section at the bottom entitled "Features" then select Focus RS -v- Megane R26r -v- Impreza STI. It's an excellent well written review and there is video footage under the video section too.

Nurburgring lap times are largely irrelevant but the do bring bragging rights. The Ring so is busy nowadays that getting in a good lap is more often a matter of luck with traffic, weather and ground and air temperatures. On the open road the RS is the fastest of this trio and this has been confirmed in every single article I have read about the RS. The most commonly used phrase common to all articles on the RS is that Ford has delivered on its promise and this car actually feels like it has awd such is the massive levels of grip it develops.

In Ireland the RS retails at a shade over 42k whereas the STI was 72k before it was withdrawn and replaced with Diesel only Imprezas. 30k extra is a lot to pay for a car which is actually visually, aurally and now it seems dynamicallly inferior. The STI's saving grace is it's potential to increase the engines power without ruining the steering but the RS could apparently take another 20-30 bhp without compromising driveablity.

The bit that really sucks is the fact that Subaru could have made the STI look this good, go this quick and sound this amazing but didn't. Subaru chose to ignore its loyal fan base and target the family hatchback market and dump the frumpy sti on us as an after thought. You just know Jezza is going to love this car and I'll bet it will be in the first epsiode of Top Gear when it returns to our screens.

Actually this site is full of great articles on Scoobys from the Litchfield Type 20, the new WRXS (which they highly rate) and the 22B.

http://www.drivers-republic.com/

Frawls
 
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=14101.msg174618#msg174618 date=1238802620]
[quote author=STi Brian link=topic=14101.msg174424#msg174424 date=1238770314]
Haven't they already put it around the ring and weren't as quick as the Megane but they're going back with track toyos this time?

Think they'll do well to go sub 8min to be honest.
[/quote]

spot on Brian the r26r comes with those standard there not even an option on the RS...plus weight is not aa big an issue around the ring where you have big torque to carry you up the mountain and loads of straights I'm willing to bet the r26r will still be quicker around a normal tight circuit
[/quote]

Ford commissioned specially made Continental tyres for the RS as only one other car manufacturer (a Merc E class if memory serves me correctly) used the particular tyre Ford they wanted. The Continental tyres on the RS are supposed to be incredible and unlike the semi cup TOYO 888's on the R26R are all weather tyres. I would be very very surprised if Ford didn't set the new FWD lap record at the Ring not just because the RS is faster but because they will simply stay there until they achieve the record, they are that determined!

Frawls
 
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=14101.msg174423#msg174423 date=1238769812]
sti costs 26k in uk the focus is 25...considering the sti is quiker and offers awd i dont see it being over priced against the RS
[/quote]

The STi is only quicker to 60 but there is nothing between them to 100mph and from there on the RS would pull away. As far as in gear acceleration goes, I would expect the lighter fwd RS to be much quicker as it has far more torque than the sti and less transmission losses.

Before I start to sound like a Ford PR guy I just want to say I owned 2 Imprezas from new and had them for 3/12 years each and absolutely loved them to bits and still do.

The RS is the only car I have read about since I first heard about the classic Impreza Turbo back in 1996 that really rings all my bells. It is cheap, fast, looks great and is dynamically the best car on the road for the money. It is the spiritual successor to the original Impreza Turbo in that it is the working man's supercar. The bloated, heavy, dull sounding and hugely overpriced STI and EVO have lost the plot but this RS has restored petrolhead's faith again in cars that go as well as they sound and, just as importantly, are affordable.

The RS is actually all the car we wanted from Subaru and Mitsubishi not Ford and whilst I am delighted that Ford has delivered such an amazing car I am equally saddened that they have stolen everything that the Impreza stood for; great sound, tough aggressive looks, brilliant handling and affordability.

As you might have guessed I spend a lot of time (way too much!) reading about cars on the internet and in magazines (like a lot of guys on here I'll bet) and I have read in at least one place rumours that FHI are taking a close look at Subaru as it is seriously under-performing. Lets hope they decide to get rid of the management rather than get rid of the company but the kind of rave reviews the RS is getting and the fact that there are actually waiting lists (despite the recession) must surely raise questions about Subaru's senior management and design executives.

Frawls
 
dude you do sound like the PR guy..your quoting stuff there that you can't verify..the STI is only 30kg heavier with awd so how is it bloated? your buying in to all the rule britania boll0x in the motoring press..the sti330 is out soon will beat the RS. "you expect" the rs to be quicker fact is it isnt look at the figures..and on Irish roads an sti will whip it..I'm sure the RS is a fine car but no way it presents better value than an STI in the UK
 
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=14101.msg175237#msg175237 date=1239030638]
your quoting stuff there that you can't verify.
The huge amount written abut the RS already more than verifys everything I have said. EVO, Autocar, Drivers Republic all say the same. This car IS faster and better than an STI.

.the STI is only 30kg heavier with awd so how is it bloated?
The RS is actually 38 kgs lighter than the STI but that's not actually what I was referring too. I meant the STI is bloated looking but as you've mentioned it is heavier too. If you spec the STI with the 18 inch wheels and 245 tyres it is is even heavier again.

your buying in to all the rule britania boll0x in the motoring press..
No I'm not! Thanks for this codescending comment though. Actually I have been reading about all things motoring probably long before you and I have been aware of British Motoring bias in favour of Fords, Rovers, Jags and Lotuses for over 25 years!

the sti330 is out soon will beat the RS.
The STI 330 is just a regular sti with the PPP. It still hasn't addressed all the STI faults such as the complete absence of steering feel, overly light steering, too much body roll and torque arriving too high up the rpm range. The steering issue is a major problem which Litchfield still haven't cured on their highly rated Type 20. Poor steering feel = lack of confidence = slower everywhere.

"you expect" the rs to be quicker fact is it isnt look at the figures.
In the real world the RS is much quicker. You obviously didnt read the Drivers Republic article. Chris Harris is not one of the biased British motoring journos. He actually rates the WRXS very highly and picked it in a huge group test over some very fine machinery.

.and on Irish roads an sti will whip it..I'm sure the RS is a fine car but no way it presents better value than an STI in the UK
Now who is quoting facts you can't verify! Why would I be in the slightest interested whether the RS is better value in another country? We both live in Ireland and the fact remains that here there is a massive difference in these cars prices and correspondingly value for money. On any road the RS is the faster car, on track the RS will be the quicker car too.

dude you do sound like the PR guy
No you sound like the PR guy for Subaru which is odd because I remember you berating someone on this site before for being blinkered about Subarus and that there are many other great drivers cars out there. This puts me in mind of the story about the pot and the black kettle!

Frawls
[/q
 
Take it easy guys,

I love the new RS.. but there is something missing :/ I wish it was AWD like good ol' Cossie :icon_pray:
 
Right lets just address what you originally said...the STI was over priced against an RS..IMO offering awd traction for a grand is not over priced makes the RS overpriced.
You said I didn't read your drivers republic, well in fact I did ,I read it before you posted it, it states in print that the figures show the STI is quicker but the RS feels quicker in the real world. "feels" quicker it has less lag and power is more useable across the range but that doesn't mean in a flat out race it is quicker.
Condescending not intened so apologises there..but this is the second time you have posted about the RS on here what is the point?
I can only compare UK prices as the STI is not available in Ireland anymore...the the price of the RS over just reflects the unfairness of the VRT system.
I'm am not defending the STI its an ugly car and sanitised now, but your saying things I disagree with and thus am entitled to refute them...with my own cash would I choose an STI over a RS..no..but the RS is unproven on Irish and UK roads...it was launched on roads that suit it perfectly..I'l wait for a wet test on real b roads before I am convinced..all you mag tested quoted there tested the car on the same roads. It rains more often than not here you will never convince me fwd will be as quick in the wet
 
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=14101.msg175292#msg175292 date=1239046284]
Right lets just address what you originally said...the STI was over priced against an RS..IMO offering awd traction for a grand is not over priced makes the RS overpriced.
You said I didn't read your drivers republic, well in fact I did ,I read it before you posted it, it states in print that the figures show the STI is quicker but the RS feels quicker in the real world. "feels" quicker it has less lag and power is more useable across the range but that doesn't mean in a flat out race it is quicker.
Condescending not intened so apologises there..but this is the second time you have posted about the RS on here what is the point?
I can only compare UK prices as the STI is not available in Ireland anymore...the the price of the RS over just reflects the unfairness of the VRT system.
I'm am not defending the STI its an ugly car and sanitised now, but your saying things I disagree with and thus am entitled to refute them...with my own cash would I choose an STI over a RS..no..but the RS is unproven on Irish and UK roads...it was launched on roads that suit it perfectly..I'l wait for a wet test on real b roads before I am convinced..all you mag tested quoted there tested the car on the same roads. It rains more often than not here you will never convince me fwd will be as quick in the wet
[/quote]
I am quite baffled why you keep referring back to the price of these two cars in the UK. Are you thinking of moving there? In Ireland, where I was obviously talking about, the the STI is over 30k dearer or at least it was before they stopped selling petrol Imprezas. It's a simple and totally valid comparison between the price of two cars in Ireland. You'd swear the STI hasn't been sold here for years the way you go on about it. 30K for awd cannot be justified especially as the RS simply doesn't need it. I will take Chris Harris's views on these matters over yours as he has been road testing and writing about cars long before you even had a Subaru.

I have to laugh sometimes at comments like "it rains in Ireland more often than not". Whilst it may certainly feel that way sometimes just ask yourself this, do you drive with your wipers on more often than not? The fact is you dont. 90% of the time awd is not actually of any significant benefit and now it is even less relevant in a world obsessed with co2 figures and mpg where awd adds weight and drag. My point is this car is actually relevant whereas the STI is not. It had its day and that is why it's not even on sale here anymore. The reason I like the RS so much is because it is relevant, well as relevant as a 300bhp hot hatch is ever going to be in these recessionary eco mentalist times! It takes the STI recipe and improves upon it everywhere being cheaper to buy and run (fuel & road tax), faster, lighter, better looking and especially, better sounding. Actually it now has all of the things which made the Classic Impreza Turbo such an amazingly brilliant car.

The reason I posted about the RS is because I thought people might be interested in another rally replica. I dont know about you but the old STI - EVO rivalry is about as boring as today's budget speech. The RS is laying claim to be the next best thing since, well, the Classic Impreza Turbo. I find that very interesting and as a true petrol head quite exciting and make no apologies for that! This is an open forum for ideas and debate. If you dont like reading what I posted no ones forcing you to read it. I have actually had private e mails from other members who said they like reading my posts (including the ones in this thread) as they find them interesting and a welcome change from a lot of the one line "yeh, I love those wheels in black" posts!

As regards whether a fwd car can be as quick as an awd in the wet, well that one's easy. It all depends! Around a track this RS and the R26R would lick the sti and only on some really appauling secondary roads in seriously wet conditions would the sti reign supreme. So, thanks for your last post's broad sweeping generalized assessment of the unassailable superiority of awd. Did you forget EVO's "2008 real-world car of the year test" put the new STi last out of ten last year and put a fwd car first? They also said the STI 330 would have barely faired any better. I look forward to EVO doing a full road test in Wales with the RS against the STI & EVO and R26R. I know which one my money's on rain or shine.

Frawls
 
As I said it only as debate and not something you should be taking personally, I too enjoy your posts and I thought we where just having a debate as usual but somehow its seems I've offended you if I did it was unintentional. I know your car fan I do respect your opinion.
I just thought we did this RS thing already?
Look sorry if I pissed you off but I'm waiting for a real test of the RS
 
Hate to say it but i gave to say, fair fks to Ford, just when iit seemed that everything was gone soft looking, they launch that Beauty of an RS, it is absolutly mental looking and the straight away what comes to mind is why cant Subaru have this as there new model :ponder2: I am a bit dissapointed that it isnt 4wd, as i see it as the new ESCORT COSSIE, and it has the luks, wouldnt it off been great with an AWD system and maybe even a Cossie lump. I think the BHP is waisted in the Front wheel drive as i have drove a colt with only a 1.8 gsr turbo transplant and it was all torque steer, so cant imagine what the RS is like, i know there may be traction control etc etc, but to be honest i think anyone who has drove a performance car with traction control on it, will agree, it kinda defies the point to have it turned on, and all driving aids are usually the first thing i turn off with a big unimpressed sigh before i drive the thing even to the shops.
The new STI in my opinion was a half arsed effort to produce a car that just is different than the last model, i love the Hawkeye, but think we all have thought, "how long are they going to keep basically the same back end going without changing"??
What i cant understand is why Scooby didnt have the up and go like Ford to lauch a fat arched car, for god sake even if they relaunched the 22B it would be better that the Hatchback, imagine a wrc arched hawkeye or something sold to general public :multijump: :multijump:
I would love that RS, and the last time that i could say that about a FORD was in 92 0r 93 i think, and that was the escort cossie..
RS wins hands down on looks, but then again look at the new sti :wall:
AWD would of sealed the deal for me, and despite reviews i think 270bhp through front wheel drive is its downfall,
Buy one before a new sti? DEFINITLY
 
@ Frawls, How many essays are ya going to write? :wall: We get it you like the RS and think it'll beat the STI, that's fine its a great looking car, but heaven forbid anyone disagrees with ya. If your correct then the figures will speak for themselves and we'll all see it happen. No need to burn your fingers off typing like a man on a mission. This started out as a great thread but has turned into a shambles :sucks:

You really know how to articulate yourself and I enjoyed reading your earlier posts to, but perhaps you should get a job writing for a car mag or some other media because it doesn't appear that you take constructive criticism or debating very well.

I've said my piece (but can feel a long winded essay reply coming on) :geek:

P.S. With current styling and costs I'd probably buy the new RS over the new STI now too, but to be fair I'd buy nearly anything over the new STI :cuckoo:
 
Actually I've said all I want to say about the RS and I wasn't taking anything personally nor do I agree that this thread has descended into a shambles by any means. I totally respect Dagnut's opinion and always look forward to reading his posts as there are only a handful of people on here these days who post something other than one line comments.

Sorry for the long posts. I'll make sure to stick to one liners from now on. Here's one for you. Einstein rules relatively okay - well, in theory anyway :multijump:

Frawls
 
According to what little info there is about this cars availability in Ireland it seems like it wont be officially available here until sometime next week.

I'm going to go for a test drive to see if it's as good as it's supposed to be and even if it's not I just want to hear that old Quattroesque tune one more time.
 
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