tuning problem
- Thread starter k-jones-087
- Start date
k-jones-087
Sunday Drivers
Dont know about the maf delete kit but if my power fc is mapped correctly there shouldnt be a problem i think.Il have to get it looked at by couture nick.It will be interesting to see if its mapped wrong,my gut feeling is that it is.If my engine is in trouble then il change it and then probably go for the simtek but I know its exspensive.
k-jones-087
Sunday Drivers
well im gonna get the car checked out 1st and if its not mapped correctly I will tell anyone who wants to know so they dont waist there money.but at the moment I dont know for sure. I have an induction kit on the car alright,but surely that cant upset the maf that much can it.Id say theres very few cars on this site with original air box and filter.
k-jones-087
Sunday Drivers
1.35bar,dats good boost.Isnt it interesting that the mapper yesterday told me my injectors were at 99% and maf at 98% on high boost @ 6000rpm. Cant figure that out.
davelegacy
Member Number 16
The injectors would not be 99% maxed out at 1.35 bar assuming your running standrard vf28 etc. Nor maf maxed out. Would advise uprated fuel pump though.
And why wasn't laptop run done for checks. Also assume was mapped through hand controller only.
PM me if you need.
cheers
DAVE
And why wasn't laptop run done for checks. Also assume was mapped through hand controller only.
PM me if you need.
cheers
DAVE
Rob Spec C
Octane Boostaholics
My car was mapped with a dodgy MAF sensor as well. The MAF blew on the way home from the map which was a mighty pain in the hole. I replaced it with a brand new one but now the car is running far too rich and not making the power it should. I feel your pain 
hope you get sorted soon 
hope you get sorted soon gar_bandit
Middle Lane Hogs
lads im just reading this now and the mapper in question is a good friend of mine, after hearing the full story of this situation this should not be open for discussion, i am at the moment sitting in the mappers office writing ths reply, he is not a member of the club but he nows scoobys better than most on this forum so i am going to let him say a few words to clear up the issue,
Hello Everyone.
Just to let you all know it was me, Martin Tracey @ Westwardeng that mapped the Apexi ECU in this car for Keith.
I am in business 21 years & tuning subaru's since 1995.
Anyone that comesto westward are aware that I am direct in my approach, sugercoat nothing,& report on their engine/car as it is.
I am making this my first & only post on isdc as this discussion was brought to my attention by some customers yesterday.
I cannot believe the amount of bad information that is written here.
Having looked @ the post's, I feel you are all missing some important information.
The first time I was made aware of the problem Keith had, was a phone call on the 12th of Nov. to say he had jump started another car & arced or shorted his own, & when he drove the car after this he noticed it was not driving correct. When I mapped the car in Oct it had a genuine subaru MAF fitted. This was replaced with a non genuine part after the incident.
I have many subaru customers and it is a fact that the maf sensor can fail at any point, particulary 97 year cars. I can't believe I have to even write that the apexi ecu or mapping does not make the maf blow. As many of you have experienced when this happens, it can require the ecu to be adjusted accordingly especially if a non genuine MAF is used.
For the record the car was never booked in to have this rescaled / dyno time.
Perhaps our only correspondence ,un-edited, below will help put things in perspective in particular my reply to Keith.
Thank's & Happy Christmas To ALL.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: keith jones
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: FW: REF:MARTIN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Martin,just want to express my dissapiontment in the work that was carried out on my car.I paid 350euro of money that these days isnt easy to come by and to be honest I feel it was for nothing.When I went up to you last Saturdy morning and you told me the injectors were at 99% and maf was at 98% @6000rpm and you didnt want any more to do with the car Im sorry that just isnt good enough.Ive made a few calls on this to certain experts and the general feeling is that no way should the injectors and maf be that high.I have no problem if my engine is on the way out and would blaim no one if it blows,I will just simply replace it,now in my opinion the car wasnt and still isnt mapped correctly and for you to just take my money and wash your hands of it I find a problem with.If we did work on a car in my garage and it was'nt done correctly we would have to fix the problem or refund the money,simple as that.Ive put the standard ecu back in and will be taking car to another tuner after xmas,which is gonna cost me another few hundred.Ive emailed you as I think this was the most polite way of talking to you.I hope you will think about this and reply to me in some way as Im not happy about this one bit.
Keith Jones.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: REF:MARTIN
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:31:37 +0000
Hello Keith,
I am sorry that you are disappointed.
I am suprised at the tone of your email & I think that your disappointment is misdirected to me.
Your car was mapped Tues 20th October. The Euro 350 charge (incl 13.5% vat) is for mapping & dyno time which takes approx 5 hrs of my time to complete.
Maybe I spend too long on it but I like to optimise MBT & transient conditions as best possible.
The power & torque figures we got relative to the boost level is good & what we would safely see on 95 octane fuel on our dyno.
At the time I was concerned about the low coolant level in the header tank , & engine condition prior to mapping which has to be taken into consideration.
On collection, the car was test driven & you were happy. I advised you of the following;
The car was low on coolant before tuning - did not run high boost due to possible head gasket damage.
The injectors were at their limit for the power level & fuel delivered to them.
Ask the internet expert's about maximum fuel flow requirements that the injectors need in order to sustain lower duty cycle relative to safe AFR ,if you don't know.
If there was any issue with the running of the car, I would have identified it during the course of mapping the car and I would have made you aware of and advised you accordingly on the day. If you look at your power graphs they are clean & smooth.
You had three weeks of driving with no issues or problems until you contacted me to say that you "jump started" a friends car with your car while apexi ecu was connected & shorted it out.
This you should also tell your expert's & since doing so you had difficulty with the car.
In order to help you, I posted two standard ecus to Cork free of charge to assist you in getting to the bottom of the problem after you had shorted it out.
Then you arranged to come up last Saturday, for me to check the ecu map - reflash the map into the ecu in case the original had been corrupted by your jump start incident. This was not a remapping /dyno session, which I had made clear to you on the phone before you travelled, as Saturdays are very busy for me. I also did some short logs to see if anything was showing up & only injector duty cycle maxing out is all I could find. I did'nt say the airflow was maxed out. I did not charge anything for the time I spent on your car on Saturday.
The only other conclusion I had was that the new airflow meter you had installed after it was mapped originally, was different in it's scaling which I explained to you. When you change something like this, you must be sure its identical to the one before in order to avoid remapping the Apexi ecu again.
Then you asked me about how would you get more power from it & I told you to rebuild the engine first to be sure it will take it & then look for more power.
I am not in this business to make a quick buck.
I spend the time on each car I map in order to get the best from it within a safety margin.
I did not try & sell you uprated pump's or FPR's or any parts - I was not "making money out of you ".
I did not " wash my hands of it " as you say, I had no interest in getting more power from your engine in its current condition, as I had originally pointed out my concerns to you back in Oct.
Mapping is optimising air fuel ratio, ignition timing, and boost levels , economy, torque, power. Mapping does not fix faults that are created by faulty components.
I can only tune the car as it is presented so it is up to you to be sure all is in order ie. fuel pump, fpr,airflow meter,map sensor etc. before the car comes in for tuning.
To be honest I thought you were a mechanic & would have understood what I was trying to say on Saturday, so I hope this email makes things clear.
I think your main issue is that you short circuited the car and that the engine did not make the power numbers you dreamt it would - both of which I have no control over.
Regards,
Martin
Hello Everyone.
Just to let you all know it was me, Martin Tracey @ Westwardeng that mapped the Apexi ECU in this car for Keith.
I am in business 21 years & tuning subaru's since 1995.
Anyone that comesto westward are aware that I am direct in my approach, sugercoat nothing,& report on their engine/car as it is.
I am making this my first & only post on isdc as this discussion was brought to my attention by some customers yesterday.
I cannot believe the amount of bad information that is written here.
Having looked @ the post's, I feel you are all missing some important information.
The first time I was made aware of the problem Keith had, was a phone call on the 12th of Nov. to say he had jump started another car & arced or shorted his own, & when he drove the car after this he noticed it was not driving correct. When I mapped the car in Oct it had a genuine subaru MAF fitted. This was replaced with a non genuine part after the incident.
I have many subaru customers and it is a fact that the maf sensor can fail at any point, particulary 97 year cars. I can't believe I have to even write that the apexi ecu or mapping does not make the maf blow. As many of you have experienced when this happens, it can require the ecu to be adjusted accordingly especially if a non genuine MAF is used.
For the record the car was never booked in to have this rescaled / dyno time.
Perhaps our only correspondence ,un-edited, below will help put things in perspective in particular my reply to Keith.
Thank's & Happy Christmas To ALL.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: keith jones
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: FW: REF:MARTIN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Martin,just want to express my dissapiontment in the work that was carried out on my car.I paid 350euro of money that these days isnt easy to come by and to be honest I feel it was for nothing.When I went up to you last Saturdy morning and you told me the injectors were at 99% and maf was at 98% @6000rpm and you didnt want any more to do with the car Im sorry that just isnt good enough.Ive made a few calls on this to certain experts and the general feeling is that no way should the injectors and maf be that high.I have no problem if my engine is on the way out and would blaim no one if it blows,I will just simply replace it,now in my opinion the car wasnt and still isnt mapped correctly and for you to just take my money and wash your hands of it I find a problem with.If we did work on a car in my garage and it was'nt done correctly we would have to fix the problem or refund the money,simple as that.Ive put the standard ecu back in and will be taking car to another tuner after xmas,which is gonna cost me another few hundred.Ive emailed you as I think this was the most polite way of talking to you.I hope you will think about this and reply to me in some way as Im not happy about this one bit.
Keith Jones.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: REF:MARTIN
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:31:37 +0000
Hello Keith,
I am sorry that you are disappointed.
I am suprised at the tone of your email & I think that your disappointment is misdirected to me.
Your car was mapped Tues 20th October. The Euro 350 charge (incl 13.5% vat) is for mapping & dyno time which takes approx 5 hrs of my time to complete.
Maybe I spend too long on it but I like to optimise MBT & transient conditions as best possible.
The power & torque figures we got relative to the boost level is good & what we would safely see on 95 octane fuel on our dyno.
At the time I was concerned about the low coolant level in the header tank , & engine condition prior to mapping which has to be taken into consideration.
On collection, the car was test driven & you were happy. I advised you of the following;
The car was low on coolant before tuning - did not run high boost due to possible head gasket damage.
The injectors were at their limit for the power level & fuel delivered to them.
Ask the internet expert's about maximum fuel flow requirements that the injectors need in order to sustain lower duty cycle relative to safe AFR ,if you don't know.
If there was any issue with the running of the car, I would have identified it during the course of mapping the car and I would have made you aware of and advised you accordingly on the day. If you look at your power graphs they are clean & smooth.
You had three weeks of driving with no issues or problems until you contacted me to say that you "jump started" a friends car with your car while apexi ecu was connected & shorted it out.
This you should also tell your expert's & since doing so you had difficulty with the car.
In order to help you, I posted two standard ecus to Cork free of charge to assist you in getting to the bottom of the problem after you had shorted it out.
Then you arranged to come up last Saturday, for me to check the ecu map - reflash the map into the ecu in case the original had been corrupted by your jump start incident. This was not a remapping /dyno session, which I had made clear to you on the phone before you travelled, as Saturdays are very busy for me. I also did some short logs to see if anything was showing up & only injector duty cycle maxing out is all I could find. I did'nt say the airflow was maxed out. I did not charge anything for the time I spent on your car on Saturday.
The only other conclusion I had was that the new airflow meter you had installed after it was mapped originally, was different in it's scaling which I explained to you. When you change something like this, you must be sure its identical to the one before in order to avoid remapping the Apexi ecu again.
Then you asked me about how would you get more power from it & I told you to rebuild the engine first to be sure it will take it & then look for more power.
I am not in this business to make a quick buck.
I spend the time on each car I map in order to get the best from it within a safety margin.
I did not try & sell you uprated pump's or FPR's or any parts - I was not "making money out of you ".
I did not " wash my hands of it " as you say, I had no interest in getting more power from your engine in its current condition, as I had originally pointed out my concerns to you back in Oct.
Mapping is optimising air fuel ratio, ignition timing, and boost levels , economy, torque, power. Mapping does not fix faults that are created by faulty components.
I can only tune the car as it is presented so it is up to you to be sure all is in order ie. fuel pump, fpr,airflow meter,map sensor etc. before the car comes in for tuning.
To be honest I thought you were a mechanic & would have understood what I was trying to say on Saturday, so I hope this email makes things clear.
I think your main issue is that you short circuited the car and that the engine did not make the power numbers you dreamt it would - both of which I have no control over.
Regards,
Martin
Altezza-Dan
Octane Boostaholics
i think that sums it up alright!
what he said 
S
Scoobymaniac
Guest
gretts-WRseX said:
Indeed man, that's why I didn't comment, had a feeling the full story would come to light eventually
gar_bandit
Middle Lane Hogs
i hope that clears things up lads, i dont appreciate a well experienced person like martin getting bad press, he built my engine and does all my tuning and i wouldnt use anyone else, i have the confidence in getting into my car and driving the sh*** out of it and it never misses a beat, thanks alot to Martin @ westward ,
and to keith i think you owe someone an appolagie for the bad press, things like this can do harm to a persons business and reputation,
, and to keith i think you owe someone an appolagie for the bad press, things like this can do harm to a persons business and reputation,
Altezza-Dan
Octane Boostaholics
he didn't name the mapper in fairness!
gar_bandit said:
Apologize? For what? gar, YOU brought the bad press by mentioning the mappers name.
Altezza-Dan said:
As above.
The mapper was never mentioned by the original poster. Fair enough Gar, you are supporting the mapper (I did too in my posts above).
By supporting Martin publicly I think you made the situation worse by mentioning his name.