What ye lads think of this
- Thread starter collyb1
- Start date
smokey wrx
Petrolheads
KENC said:
I want to put in a long winded reply ere but I can't be arsed!
You're wrong. End of!
davelegacy
Member Number 16
2) Without prejudice to any other condition or warranty, in every contract for the sale of a motor vehicle (except a contract in which the buyer is a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) there is an implied condition that at the time of delivery of the vehicle under the contract it is free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.(3)
Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—
(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and
(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and
(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.
Thats the law from a court aspect
In this case:
the vehicle was perfect at time of delivery as buyer has stated.
so that imo is the end of the legal argument.
also in private sales as also stated above it would be wise to have contract/paperwork signed during sale.
this also is stated above and buyers and sellers rights/standings are agreed at time of sale.
Subsection (2) of this section shall not apply where—
(a) it is agreed between the seller and the buyer that the vehicle is not intended for use in the condition in which it is to be delivered to the buyer under the contract, and
(b) a document consisting of a statement to that effect is signed by or on behalf of the seller and the buyer and given to the buyer prior to or at the time of such delivery, and
(c) it is shown that the agreement referred to in paragraph (a) is fair and reasonable.
Thats the law from a court aspect
In this case:
the vehicle was perfect at time of delivery as buyer has stated.
so that imo is the end of the legal argument.
also in private sales as also stated above it would be wise to have contract/paperwork signed during sale.
this also is stated above and buyers and sellers rights/standings are agreed at time of sale.
Im not saying its right that i guy can go and wreck an engine after he buys it off you but there is come back if he pushes it to a Soliciter,
Its just worth everyone baring it in mind, as i know someone that got caught badly with a guy that bought a car from him and blew the gearbox 3 days later, and he had to pay towards fixing it. And worst thing was he knew that the buyer had been ringing it non stop after he bought it...
Its a disaster if your at the wrong end of it, but if you bought something and did nothing wrong to it and engine blew after couple of hours, you wouldnt be happy either.
Its just worth everyone baring it in mind, as i know someone that got caught badly with a guy that bought a car from him and blew the gearbox 3 days later, and he had to pay towards fixing it. And worst thing was he knew that the buyer had been ringing it non stop after he bought it...
Its a disaster if your at the wrong end of it, but if you bought something and did nothing wrong to it and engine blew after couple of hours, you wouldnt be happy either.
When I sell a car I bring the person to the house, ask them inside count the cash, ask them to sign a logbook and a written declaration that the car is sold as seen on that date/time. So it is their car now and anything that breaks its up to them to fix it after that.
Baz that makes no difference what do ever, sold as seen can be interpreted in different ways,
There was a thread on here a while back where a member swapped his legacy for a navara jeep, the jeep didn't blow up bit it was spotted that an old patrol engine had been butcherd into it, he got onto Soliciter and they swapped back cars, think his legacy was fukd when he got it back but point of story is there is come back whether lads want to come to terms with it or not is another thing.
Do you honestly think that if you sold a car to someone as sold as seen, and engine fails a few hours down the road that they have no come back with you??
There was a thread on here a while back where a member swapped his legacy for a navara jeep, the jeep didn't blow up bit it was spotted that an old patrol engine had been butcherd into it, he got onto Soliciter and they swapped back cars, think his legacy was fukd when he got it back but point of story is there is come back whether lads want to come to terms with it or not is another thing.
Do you honestly think that if you sold a car to someone as sold as seen, and engine fails a few hours down the road that they have no come back with you??
KENC said:
Ken
My reply to that would be yes they have no come back from me if the car was perfect when sold , any issues pointed out etc.I have been threathened with legal action before over an altenator belt snapped and the lad rang me saying it was a timing belt and the engine was fucked.I told him go ahead, never heard a thing back.
If in the case where an engine was butchered yes I can see someone pushing a come back legally. I remember the thread .
Personally If I knew the car needed something or was not in a state to be sold on or had hidden issues I wouldnt sell it. Now I'm not saying the op knew there was an issue but if he did and he left a lad a the side of a road with a piece of scrap then he deserves legal action to be taken against him.
If its a case where the person has drove the arse off the car as soon as he bought it he wouldnt be getting anything from me.
You buy and sell a few cars and you probably know more , but they are my opinions on the subject and most would agree.
Lads what it boils down to , you can take a criminal case
against a garage if they sell you a dodgy car , if it's a private
sale, you can only take a civil case , where you don't have the same rights .
.......(unless you can prove the car was not road worthy) , in which case seller is fooked .
But in short yes you can take a "civil case" against a private seller
NIall.
against a garage if they sell you a dodgy car , if it's a private
sale, you can only take a civil case , where you don't have the same rights .
.......(unless you can prove the car was not road worthy) , in which case seller is fooked .
But in short yes you can take a "civil case" against a private seller
NIall.
seanie
Well-known member
If the car is tested then it is roadworthy in the eyes of the law. It is impossible to determine that the seller knew of any faults with the car that were undisclosed at time of sale. In my opinion when it's a private sale the buyer does not have a leg to stand on unless he can prove without doubt the seller kept the information from him which is next to impossible to prove it's just one persons word against another.
Yes that's true Seanie but the car must also be of Of merchantable quality.
going bang four hours down the road will not pass as merchantable quality.
The buyer has rights and he can bring a civil case .
Now most don't because if you loose a civil case your cost's are big
and could be much more than the price of the car plus repair bills in the first place , it's for this
reason i think alot of private sellers think there is no come back , basically because people can not afford
to take the risk of a civil case .
Niall.
going bang four hours down the road will not pass as merchantable quality.
The buyer has rights and he can bring a civil case .
Now most don't because if you loose a civil case your cost's are big
and could be much more than the price of the car plus repair bills in the first place , it's for this
reason i think alot of private sellers think there is no come back , basically because people can not afford
to take the risk of a civil case .
Niall.
Well your right he can't but that's not how it works .
@bull68er: my advice would be , if possible to come to some arrangment
with the buyer and be done with it .
If the buyer wants to take a civil case he can , all the judge will know, is you sold
a car in good faith , the buyer bought a car in good faith and thats it, nobody can prove anything else !!
So the judge will have to make a decision which might go your way or might not
Hope you can get it sorted with out too much hassle
NIall.
@bull68er: my advice would be , if possible to come to some arrangment
with the buyer and be done with it .
If the buyer wants to take a civil case he can , all the judge will know, is you sold
a car in good faith , the buyer bought a car in good faith and thats it, nobody can prove anything else !!
So the judge will have to make a decision which might go your way or might not
Hope you can get it sorted with out too much hassle
NIall.
Well my mate had 3 options..
1. Refund the total amount and take the car back with gearbox gone.
2. Have the buyer go to a BMW main dealer and have the car fixed and my mate foot the bill.
3. Try come to some arragement and work with buyer, 2nd hand box, non main dealer labour, half the cost etc etc.
In some ways my mate was unfortunate, but in some ways he was lucky as the guy that bought it was happy to go with the half the cost, 2nd hand box option...
The big problem is, Its a soft handed Judge that will make the decision, someone who knows nothing about cars. So its 50/50 at the best, if not more in favour of the buyer.
When its in court, a buyer saying that the seller got him to sign a Sold as Seen piece of paper, and then car blew up and when he contacted the seller he was told to fuk off, is only going to rise a judges suspicion that there was a known problem with the car.
As i said it is 50/50 at best, and judge could rule that there is no comeback, BUT they could rule full refund, or worse again, pay a main dealer to fix the problem.
Thats why my mate after being to his own soliciter, weighed up his options, and decided coming to some arrangement and pay half which i think was around 700euro was better than the possible alternatives.
As i said i am not saying its great, i can see where you could get fooked over as a seller, but also i can see where it may be needed by some buyers that have been rightly done by con men.
If someone sold you a car private and told you they owned it for 2 yrs and it turned out they owned it for 2 months, legally thats enough to get a refund!!!!!!, as its selling under false pretences, and it will be viewd that you wouldnt have bought the car if you had of known the truth.
1. Refund the total amount and take the car back with gearbox gone.
2. Have the buyer go to a BMW main dealer and have the car fixed and my mate foot the bill.
3. Try come to some arragement and work with buyer, 2nd hand box, non main dealer labour, half the cost etc etc.
In some ways my mate was unfortunate, but in some ways he was lucky as the guy that bought it was happy to go with the half the cost, 2nd hand box option...
The big problem is, Its a soft handed Judge that will make the decision, someone who knows nothing about cars. So its 50/50 at the best, if not more in favour of the buyer.
When its in court, a buyer saying that the seller got him to sign a Sold as Seen piece of paper, and then car blew up and when he contacted the seller he was told to fuk off, is only going to rise a judges suspicion that there was a known problem with the car.
As i said it is 50/50 at best, and judge could rule that there is no comeback, BUT they could rule full refund, or worse again, pay a main dealer to fix the problem.
Thats why my mate after being to his own soliciter, weighed up his options, and decided coming to some arrangement and pay half which i think was around 700euro was better than the possible alternatives.
As i said i am not saying its great, i can see where you could get fooked over as a seller, but also i can see where it may be needed by some buyers that have been rightly done by con men.
If someone sold you a car private and told you they owned it for 2 yrs and it turned out they owned it for 2 months, legally thats enough to get a refund!!!!!!, as its selling under false pretences, and it will be viewd that you wouldnt have bought the car if you had of known the truth.
davelegacy™ said:
Dave, this only applies to situations where there is a "consumer contract" which would only exist in this case where the seller was in the business of selling cars and the purchaser was a "consumer" ie a person who buys goods for their own personal use and not in the furtherance or course of a business.
The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 provides protection to "consumers". It does not not protect a an individual purchaser of a private car from a private seller which is not in the business of selling cars.
If you buy a car from a private individual as opposed to a dealer or trader the consumer legislation does not apply, and the principle caveat emptor, or “let the buyer beware” applies. What this means essentially is that you are buying the car as it is with no warranties or guarantees, and if there are any defects discovered after the sale in most cases you will not have any recourse to the seller.
The purchaser may have contractual remedies. You you would have to examine what questions were asked and replies given to determine whether there was any breach of contract for misrepresentation but that is a separate matter entirely from the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980.
I hope this helps.
Frawls