Where's everyone buying there petrol these days?

[garethmac600]

been told by many in the industry including the old man who drives for maxol/topaz not to buy maxol's fuel, apparently if your car is imported from japan and isnt mapped for irish fuel, then you have to go to maxol, if your car is mapped for irish fuel stay away from maxol as it blows up engines, how much truth there is to this i don't know tbh

Have been using maxol for 4 years, would have to say its bull

also agree with baz, been using nothing but maxol in both my subarus almost 8 years of only filling up in maxol stations, never ever had an issue..

again prob no truth too it, or maybe an old old story still going around, personally when ever i use my local maxol, the car gets a bit jumpy up high, i fill with esso, the car feels much smoother through the end of the rev range, again this could be garage specific....

 

[Rob Spec C]

been told by many in the industry including the old man who drives for maxol/topaz not to buy maxol's fuel, apparently if your car is imported from japan and isnt mapped for irish fuel, then you have to go to maxol, if your car is mapped for irish fuel stay away from maxol as it blows up engines, how much truth there is to this i don't know tbh

Have been using maxol for 4 years, would have to say its bull

also agree with baz, been using nothing but maxol in both my subarus almost 8 years of only filling up in maxol stations, never ever had an issue..

again prob no truth too it, or maybe an old old story still going around, personally when ever i use my local maxol, the car gets a bit jumpy up high, i fill with esso, the car feels much smoother through the end of the rev range, again this could be garage specific....

I imagine that story was derived from half heard stories then passed on regarding maxol being E5 99ron and all jap cars heading to maxol to use it and then anyone who specifically mapped for E5 couldn't go anywhere else to fill up.

 

[Rob Spec C]

I've applegreen, Esso, Topaz and greatgas all within a few minutes. I tend to fill up in Esso generally, I always used to think I was getting an improvement in mpg (on the daily) too so maybe there is some truth to it if it's better quality.

 

[geogan]

Esso only!

Maxol and applegreen is muck apparently. Told this by a friend who works in the ports unloading fuel and who's a petrol expert. He swears by esso... Consistently the better as maxol and applegreen now put E5 to take 92/93 octane to 95... Whereas esso is 95 octane across the board

How is Esso 95 octane if it fills up from same tanker ship as everyone else? Or does it load its trucks from a some special delivery 95 octane Esso ship?

As far as I know all the fuel trucks are filled from the same tanker making regular deliveries into this country.

There is shed loads of misinformation and chinese whispers going on about best/worst fuel going on here for years... i heard from x who read y from an old post years ago from z who heard from j... it's bollox.

Unless someone which chemical measuring instruments and lab equipment actually samples fuel from various stations and gets a scientific reading of octane then it is pointless listening to whether I like Maxol or Topaz or Esso, or if I "think" i get better mileage or it feels better - its all placebo.

All I can know for sure is don't go to back country unbranded cheapo garages - stick with big brands and you will be safe enough. I have never had any trouble with any of them and mine was apparently "mapped" for E5 and would blow up if I used anything else.

 

[Altezza-Dan]

Usually applegreen or maxol. Knock detector lights up a lot more these days anyway w
No matter where I get it. Quality has definitely dropped across the board. Glad im getting a remap soon!

 

[CiaranBC5]

Have to agree with geogan here, at work we get a bulk delivery of diesel from the port on a weekly basis.
I got speaking to the lads who were delivering the fuel and asked the question which pops up here from time to time, which fuel company is the best? Esso Maxol Topaz Top etc etc
I was reliably informed that the branded trucks for eg Topaz would fill out of the Top bulk tank in the port, as would the Esso liveried truck and the Top liveried truck. The next day they could all draw from the Esso tank.

Busy stations would be probably the best place to fill, rather than the station that has weeds growing on the forecourt. The non branded garages with the name of the town and fuels next are a no bloody go, screams DODGEY to me.
Ballygobackwards Fuels @ 5 cent a litre cheaper than the topaz in the same town. 5 cent cheaper for a reason

 

[CiaranBC5]

:smokesubaru

 

[Scoobyturbo]

When i bought the car a few weeks ago Niall had put half a tank in with no NF and it felt great off boost.
When i filled it with half a tank in apple green(no nf)it was ok till i went up the slip road on the m50 car bogged down and felt like sh*t could feel it trying to adjust.

Got the nf topped it up in esso and she was flying.

Been using Maxol since and find it ok power wise but using a bit more fuel.

Filled her to the top tonight in esso 1.47 a ltr in with NF and shes flying again so theres defo a difference.

Mad i used to put anything in the legacy and it never bothered it although when vpower was around it did feel more responsive.

 

[Zheiko]

When i bought the car a few weeks ago Niall had put half a tank in with no NF and it felt great off boost.
When i filled it with half a tank in apple green(no nf)it was ok till i went up the slip road on the m50 car bogged down and felt like sh*t could feel it trying to adjust.

Got the nf tooped it off in esso and she was flying.

Been using since and find it ok but using a bit more fuel.

Filled her to the top tonight in esso 1.47 a ltr in with NF and shes flying again so theres defo a difference.

Mad i used to put anything in the legacy and it never bothered it although when vpower was around it did feel more responsive.

you just confirmed my fears, as the same happened to me, after filling up in Applegreen, I got shitty performance...

 

[dave b]

Been using applegreen ballinteer and rathcoole past few weeks filled up in esso rathfarnham last night and car seems to drive much better today!! I think it's hit and miss sometimes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Keadeen]

My hawk was only run on Esso and Maxol the past 18 months - and always from bigger service stations.

It was mapped with Esso fuel in it, so would expect it to run well on that and found Maxol made no difference.

Once had to get €20 petrol at a local smallish Topaz and car was not too happy (sluggish, rougher idle and flat in mid range - though didn't see knock engine light on the dash), but fine again when filled next day at a big Esso and driven for a few miles.

- Back few years ago when Maxol still had the higher octane RON97-99 level fuel I really could notice the difference in my STI v3, Blob WRX and MINI JCW - all of them way more lively.

These days best to hope for seems to be getting RON95 that is fresh.

 

[scoobycolm]

It was mapped with Esso fuel in it, so would expect it to run well on that and found Maxol made no difference.

Never thought of that could whatever fuel was in the car when mapped be the better way to keep going

 

[Scoobyturbo]

Been using applegreen ballinteer and rathcoole past few weeks filled up in esso rathfarnham last night and car seems to drive much better today!! I think it's hit and miss sometimes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ballinteer is where i got it and its the first time in any of my cars that i felt a difference.

Would a wide band afr guage show the difference straight after fill up?
has the bad fuel got anything to do with running lean or rich and is it this thats causing engines to go bang?

 

[Keadeen]

Would a wide band afr guage show the difference straight after fill up?

Wouldn't make a difference on the AFR for Lean/ Rich to help tell the difference between say RON93 vs RON95 if it is "normal" petrol where the base fuel components are close to similar.

Might show a difference if they mixed in other fuel grade like kerosene (which would lower the octane), but not sure how big the difference would be and with constant variable AFR readings during driving in the real world you'd not be able to tell the difference anyway.

You would see a difference alright if you put in E85 or pure ethanol - because the energy content is way lower you need to inject way more fuel to get the right air-fuel ratio... so a car with a map for normal petrol would show as running lean on E85 or ethanol - same for LPG by the way. Of course these all have way higher octane ratings than normal petrol, but lower caloric energy value per weight / volume.

Hence AFR reading isn't enough to know whether your fuel is higher or lower in octane.

Lean can make engines go bang alright, but the reason engines go bang with lower octane fuel is because it self ignites at the wrong time. So instead of the spark from the plug making it go bang when the piston is in the right position, with lower octane the fuel-air mixture can go bang through self ignition when the piston is still on the way up. The bang tries the push the piston down, only it can't go down till it travelled all the way up. The stresses on the piston and other engine components during such an event is what kills the engines.

Diesel basically has a very low Octane rating (I think 45 off the top of my head) and hence it self ignites on compression - not what we want to see happen in our petrol scoobies.

 

[tommy 555]

great bit of info there charles , very well explained

 

[Scoobyturbo]

Fair play been doing alot of reading up as its my first time having a mapped car so dont fully understand
Octane boosters etc yet more paranoia than anything else although i was delighted that i realised something wasnt right with my fuel after only two days having it.

 

[Altezza-Dan]

knock detector is the only real way to know if your car doesnt like the fuel it got, good indicator of when to back off too before its too late!

 

[geogan]

knock detector is the only real way to know if your car doesnt like the fuel it got, good indicator of when to back off too before its too late!

Yeah I was going to get one of those a while ago but reading up on them it appears they are difficult to set up and calibrate correctly and if not done right they are telling you nothing, just reading normal engine operation as knock. Decent ones are very xpensive too.

 

[Altezza-Dan]

Yeah i got mine double checked last time Joe Power had it on the dyno, so the knock he was hearing through det cans at some stages reflected what the Phormula Knock detector was picking up. It does pick up some phantom knock sometimes but that's general during hard gear changes, but you know what it is at that point

 

[JohnRA]

It's all a lot more complex. I'll copy and paste a post when I find it but basically all stations have to do is prove that their source has been tested to be 95 Ron. This is allowed to drop to an "in car" MON of 84.7 from the researched 95Ron. E5 has been pulled altogether. It's not 95% Petrol + 5% ethanol.

With Maxol maximum you're looking at is a pure petrol Ron of 92 and they bring it up to 95Ron with biofuels as there's tax relief on these fuels as opposed to the heavy duty on petrol.

Maxol themselves state that they have >90% starting rate of Gasoline, 0-15% Toulene (Octane Booster) <10% ETBE (Ethanol replacement. Unlike ethanol, ETBE does not induce evaporation of gasoline, which is one of the causes of smog, and does not absorb moisture from the atmosphere.) <2%n-Hexane (dehydrated Hexanol which is soluble in Ethanol or possibly the ETBE in Maxols case. <1% Benzene (Extremely high octane rating but limited in use due to how carcinogenic it is.)

So you have 90% gasoline and Maxol bring this to a Ron of 95 by mixing any of the above while not going over their percentages allowed. So while all batches are 95RON, the MON rating in some mixtures can be lower. High MON is crucial when giving her the beans and reaching high revs and full boosht! Petrol and Toulene is what the F1 Turbo powerplants ran on in the olden days of the late 80's and when they went 3.5 V10 and V12 in the early 90's

As for Texaco, they use the same supply as Esso. Esso are actually the suppliers and in Ireland their trade supply is Dublin Joint Fuels. Once the tankers for Texaco take fuel from Esso it's brought to CC Lubricants Ltd in Laois to have the Techron added. You can even buy Techron in concentrate bottle to add yourself, just as you would an Octane Booster.

So if your car likes Esso, it'll love Texaco.

How it works and FAQ's on Techron http://www.techron.com/what-is-techron/questions-answers.aspx http://www.techron.com/

Applegreen don't provide an SDS on their petrol and it's additives or percentages.

Topaz do. 95RON and 85MON. Additives consist of 1% Benzene 3% Methanol 5% Ethanol 10% Iso-propyl alcohol 10% Iso-butyl alcohol 7% Tetra-butyl Alcohol 15% Ethers (5 or more C atoms) 10% Other Oxygenates.

So at times, a topaz mix is 39% Gasoline and 61% is a mix of alcohols and bio-fuels.

RON = Determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.

MON = Determined at 900 rpm engine speed instead of the 600 rpm for RON. MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern pump gasoline will be about 8 to 12 octane lower than the RON, but there is no direct link between RON and MON. Pump gasoline specifications typically require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.

AKI. AKI refers to a fuels sensitivity between it's MON and RON ratings. Also called PON in some countries (Posted Octane Number). While normally the MON is 8-12 points lower than the RON, it's not always the case. You can have a reasonably high RON fuel and it has a low MON.

For AVCS, VVTI, VTEC etc, you want a good MON but you also want a good stable gasoline base with a consistent and stable gasoline percentage and RON.

Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries post the PON on the pumps.

The RON/MON values of n-heptane and iso-octane are exactly 0 and 100, respectively, by the definition of octane rating.

Here's a nice fuel table.

RON MON AKI


hexadecane < −30
n-octane −20
n-heptane 0 0 0
diesel fuel 15–25
2-methylheptane 23 23.8
n-hexane 25 26.0 26
1-pentene 34
2-methylhexane 44 46.4
3-methylhexane 55.0
1-heptene 60
n-pentane 62 61.9
"Premium" gasoline in Indonesia 88 78 83
"Regular" gasoline in Japan 90
n-butanol 92 71 83
Neopentane (dimethylpropane) 80.2
"regular" gasoline in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US 91–92 82–83 87
Pertamina "Pertamax" gasoline in Indonesia 92 82 87
Shell "Super" in Indonesia 92
Total "Performance 92" in Indonesia 92
n-butane 94 90.1
Isopentane (methylbutane) 90.3
Pertamina "Pertamax Plus" gasoline in Indonesia 95 85 90
Super/Premium in New Zealand, Australia 95 85 90
Shell "V-Power" in Indonesia 95
Total "Performance 95" in Indonesia 95
Shell "FuelSave " in Malaysia 95
"EuroSuper" or "EuroPremium" or "Regular unleaded" in Europe, "SP95" in France 95 85–86 90–91
"Premium" or "Super unleaded" gasoline in US (10% ethanol blend) 97 87-88 92-93
Shell "V-Power 97" in Malaysia 97
Shell "V-Power 98", Caltex "Platinum 98 with Techron", Esso Mobil "Synergy 8000" 98 89–90 93–94
BP Ultimate 98/Mobil Synergy 8000 in New Zealand 98 89-90 93-94
Great Britain, Slovenia and Spain, "SP98" in France 98 89–90 93–94
"SuperPlus" in Germany 98 88
Tesco "Momentum 99" in UK 99 87
"Premium" gasoline in Japan 100
Pertamina "Pertamax Racing" in Indonesia 100
Shell V-Power in Italy and Germany 100 88
Eni(or Agip) Blu Super +(or Tech) in Italy 100 87 94
IP Plus 100 in Italy 100
Tamoil WR 100 in Italy 100
San Marco Petroli F-101 in Italy(northern Italy only, just a few gas stations) 101
Petro-Canada "Ultra 94" in Canada [13] 101.5 88 94
Aral Super 95 in Germany 95 85
Aral Super 95 E10 (10% Ethanol) in Germany 95 85
Aral SuperPlus 98 in Germany 98 88
Aral Ultimate 102 in Germany 102 88
IES 98 Plus in Italy 98
2,2-dimethylbutane 93.4
2,3-dimethylbutane 94.4
ExxonMobil Avgas 100: 99.5 (min)
Shell "V-Power Racing" in Australia - discontinued July 2008 100
Petrobras Podium 95
"isooctane" (RON and MON 100 by definition) 100 100 100
benzene 101
i-butane 102 97.6
"BP Ultimate 102 - now discontinued 102 93–94 97–98
t-butanol 103 91 97
2,3,3-trimethylpentane 106.1 99.4 103
ethane 108
2,2,3-trimethylpentane 109.6 99.9 105
toluene 121 107 114
E85 gasoline 102-105 85-87 94-96
propane 112 97
2,2,3-trimethylbutane 112.1 101.3 106
xylene 118 115 116.5
isopropanol 118 98 108
1-propanol 118 108
methanol 108.7 88.6 98.65
ethanol 108.6 89.7 99.15
2,5-Dimethylfuran 101.3 88.1 94.7
methane 120 120 120
hydrogen > 130