farmer and dogs

[quote author=BAwagon link=topic=29419.msg341428#msg341428 date=1299410516]
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341403#msg341403 date=1299401981]

I would be pissed if someone was in my yard taking pictures ,he might need a sign up there to about tresspassers ,

[/quote]
Picture probably didn't make it clear but I wasn't on His yard! The van was parked beside the road at the gate. I mentioned in the post the dog was shot two days ago so He didn't go for the dead sheep. There is no livestock on the field at the moment.
I know He Had the right by Law I was angry because He could sort the problem on a different way .


[/quote]

Looks like you are standing on his property from the reflection of the glass :icon_eyes:
 
[quote author=Pete link=topic=29419.msg341435#msg341435 date=1299412648]
[quote author=BAwagon link=topic=29419.msg341428#msg341428 date=1299410516]
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341403#msg341403 date=1299401981]

I would be pissed if someone was in my yard taking pictures ,he might need a sign up there to about tresspassers ,

[/quote]
Picture probably didn't make it clear but I wasn't on His yard! The van was parked beside the road at the gate. I mentioned in the post the dog was shot two days ago so He didn't go for the dead sheep. There is no livestock on the field at the moment.
I know He Had the right by Law I was angry because He could sort the problem on a different way .


[/quote]

Looks like you are standing on his property from the reflection of the glass :icon_eyes:
[/quote]
Way off topic but from the reflection of the glass You can see a shed on the other side off the road and the electric wires,gate also on the other side.
 
I sure would.

Did the dog attack and eat the sheep or did it chase the sheep and it died then?????????????
To me theirs a big difference alone in that!

If the dog attacked the sheep, fair enough, it should be put down.

If the dog chased it and it then died, as you say from a heart attack.
And the farmer seen the dog, If it was my dog, id pay for his sheep and not let him escape from the yard again.
Not be shot for trespassing.

And i still dont think that dog attacked and ate 2 or 3 of his sheep.
 
Farmer is fully in his right to shoot a dog that's on his land.... Even if he has no livestock in the field, sad but true.

However he should not leave a shotgun and cartridges lying around like that
 
[quote author=dohc_turbo link=topic=29419.msg341466#msg341466 date=1299421504]
I sure would.

Did the dog attack and eat the sheep or did it chase the sheep and it died then?????????????
To me theirs a big difference alone in that!

If the dog attacked the sheep, fair enough, it should be put down.

If the dog chased it and it then died, as you say from a heart attack.
And the farmer seen the dog, If it was my dog, id pay for his sheep and not let him escape from the yard again.
Not be shot for trespassing.

And i still dont think that dog attacked and ate 2 or 3 of his sheep.
[/quote]

It's irrelevant, He doesn't need to prove anything or bother to check whose dog it is, what breed it is, how friendly it is...he justs shoots it dead if its on his land. That's the law. I don't like the idea of anyone shooting dogs dead but it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference...it is what it is.
 
So if i bait the dog, cat, duck with a bit of food into my yard, while he just escaped through your font door next door this one time.
I can shoot it regardless.

Theirs the law and then common sence.

This is the law.
4.—In an action for damages for the shooting of a dog, it shall be a good defence if the defendant proves—

( a ) that the dog was shot when worrying livestock on agricultural land

( b ) that the livestock were lawfully on the land,

( c ) that the defendant was—
(i) the occupier of the land, a member of his family or a person employed by him, or
(ii) the owner of the livestock, a member of his family or a person employed by him, and
( d ) that the defendant notified the shooting within forty-eight hours to a member of the Gárda Síochána at the nearest Gárda Síochána station

Fair enough, if cattle came into my yard through the gate or through the fence and worrying my little dog, can i shoot and ask question later.
They could easily trample my dog.

Its a retarded law and should be defined more clearly, but the law is there to keep farmers livestock safe.

Anyway it wasnt my dog so i couldnt careless. :smile:
 
Do you think the farmer tempted the dog into the field to kill it?and lose money by his sheep being killed
I am sure the man is busy enough with out baiting dogs
If a dog caught the sheep or by chasing it caused it to die then it should be shot
There would be no problem if everyone looked after their dogs ,why should their irresponsible behaviour affect others livelihood
How do you propose to stop a dog chasing sheep again?If you give it a second chance ,and locking it up isn't a answer because the owner mustn't have done this in the first place if their in this situation
I think it's the owners feeling guilty because it's their fault that their dog is destroyed and are then blaming the farmer
As I ve said numerous times ,only irresponsible and careless owners need to get upset because this situation won't affect people who look after their pets
 
( quote from first post ) The dogs owner says the farmer left some meet on the field to make the dog to go to the field and than shot.
 
More likely the farmer had a problem with dogs worrying/attacking sheep first. Then placed poison meat out to kill the dogs,as well as getting himself armed to eliminate the problem. Not saying it's right but he can't put up with losing sheep while he tries to figure out whose dogs they are. I bet he was too livid to even approach the owners if he could track them down as the first thing some dog owners would do is 'deny their dog would do that sort of thing'. Dogs are pack animals and no matter how cute, will follow after the dominant dog into a field and hunt sheep at the drop of a hat(anything that runs they chase).They have been seen to run through streams after to clean the blood off. First hand experience of this growing up so i know what i'm talking about. The pack were not so local dogs and travelled miles everynight and almost became feral.I remember 90% of a pack approaching ten were shot red handed. :bah:
 
[quote author=dohc_turbo link=topic=29419.msg341504#msg341504 date=1299430846]
So if i bait the dog, cat, duck with a bit of food into my yard, while he just escaped through your font door next door this one time.
I can shoot it regardless.

Theirs the law and then common sence.

This is the law.
4.—In an action for damages for the shooting of a dog, it shall be a good defence if the defendant proves—

( a ) that the dog was shot when worrying livestock on agricultural land

( b ) that the livestock were lawfully on the land,

( c ) that the defendant was—
(i) the occupier of the land, a member of his family or a person employed by him, or
(ii) the owner of the livestock, a member of his family or a person employed by him, and
( d ) that the defendant notified the shooting within forty-eight hours to a member of the Gárda Síochána at the nearest Gárda Síochána station

Fair enough, if cattle came into my yard through the gate or through the fence and worrying my little dog, can i shoot and ask question later.
They could easily trample my dog.

Its a retarded law and should be defined more clearly, but the law is there to keep farmers livestock safe.

Anyway it wasnt my dog so i couldnt careless. :smile:
[/quote]

The key to all that is agricultural land.
 
And if im a dog breeder, thats my income same as the farmer and his sheep.
So the law wouldnt be on my side. :ponder2:
 
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341512#msg341512 date=1299434216]
As I ve said numerous times ,only irresponsible and careless owners need to get upset because this situation won't affect people who look after their pets
[/quote]
I don't agree with this because I consider Myself as a responsible dog owner and I do everything I can to avoid My dog going away from My garden but it did happen very-very few times.
I went to holiday 3 weeks ago and there was no livestock on that field for 1,5 year and there is no livestock now. The land has changed ownership during this time. The new owner Had no intention to contact anyone in the area about His problem.There is a large number of local people are upset of this story because never ever Had any problem like this before the new guy came ( although there are livestocks on other fields around)
Now I know He Had 100% rights to shoot the dog but I still don't believe this is the way it should be in the 21st century UNLESS it is proven the dog is dangerous.

BTW in general You are right about if a dog killed a sheep it is more than likely to happen again and it is the dog's owner's fault whatever happens outside of their own yard.
 
[quote author=dohc_turbo link=topic=29419.msg341564#msg341564 date=1299445858]
And if im a dog breeder, thats my income same as the farmer and his sheep.
So the law wouldnt be on my side. :ponder2:
[/quote]
If you were a dog breeder ,don't let your dogs roam free into the farmers fields , simple, the farmers has to keep his stock secured and under control in his field ,property so WHY is acceptable that dog owners don't ?
Do you agree a dog life is of thev same value as a sheeps life?

Why should the farmer have to explain to locals that he has bought the land and no ones dog should be HIS field? Again ,would people be happy if his livestock was roaming free around everyone s land/garden/driveways?
 
[quote author=BAwagon link=topic=29419.msg341565#msg341565 date=1299445903]
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341512#msg341512 date=1299434216]
As I ve said numerous times ,only irresponsible and careless owners need to get upset because this situation won't affect people who look after their pets
[/quote]
I don't agree with this because I consider Myself as a responsible dog owner and I do everything I can to avoid My dog going away from My garden but it did happen very-very few times.
I went to holiday 3 weeks ago and there was no livestock on that field for 1,5 year and there is no livestock now. The land has changed ownership during this time. The new owner Had no intention to contact anyone in the area about His problem.There is a large number of local people are upset of this story because never ever Had any problem like this before the new guy came ( although there are livestocks on other fields around)
Now I know He Had 100% rights to shoot the dog but I still don't believe this is the way it should be in the 21st century UNLESS it is proven the dog is dangerous.

BTW in general You are right about if a dog killed a sheep it is more than likely to happen again and it is the dog's owner's fault whatever happens outside of their own yard.
[/quote]

i hate to disagree with you here as you are not a responsible dog owner, yes you may look after you dog and bring it here there and everywere and love your dog very much but letting your dog go off playing with other dogs and not knowing what they get up to is very irresponsible which you say in your first post, your neighbor is very irresponible aswell and has paid for this, dearly.
 
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=29419.msg341551#msg341551 date=1299443180]
[quote author=dohc_turbo link=topic=29419.msg341504#msg341504 date=1299430846]
So if i bait the dog, cat, duck with a bit of food into my yard, while he just escaped through your font door next door this one time.
I can shoot it regardless.

Theirs the law and then common sence.

This is the law.
4.—In an action for damages for the shooting of a dog, it shall be a good defence if the defendant proves—

( a ) that the dog was shot when worrying livestock on agricultural land

( b ) that the livestock were lawfully on the land,

( c ) that the defendant was—
(i) the occupier of the land, a member of his family or a person employed by him, or
(ii) the owner of the livestock, a member of his family or a person employed by him, and
( d ) that the defendant notified the shooting within forty-eight hours to a member of the Gárda Síochána at the nearest Gárda Síochána station

Fair enough, if cattle came into my yard through the gate or through the fence and worrying my little dog, can i shoot and ask question later.
They could easily trample my dog.

Its a retarded law and should be defined more clearly, but the law is there to keep farmers livestock safe.

Anyway it wasnt my dog so i couldnt careless. :smile:
[/quote]

The key to all that is agricultural land.
[/quote]
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341568#msg341568 date=1299447140]
[quote author=dohc_turbo link=topic=29419.msg341564#msg341564 date=1299445858]
And if im a dog breeder, thats my income same as the farmer and his sheep.
So the law wouldnt be on my side. :ponder2:
[/quote]
If you were a dog breeder ,don't let your dogs roam free into the farmers fields , simple, the farmers has to keep his stock secured and under control in his field ,property so WHY is acceptable that dog owners don't ?
Do you agree a dog life is of thev same value as a sheeps life?

Why should the farmer have to explain to locals that he has bought the land and no ones dog should be HIS field? Again ,would people be happy if his livestock was roaming free around everyone s land/garden/driveways?
[/quote]

Read that one again Denis,
 
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341568#msg341568 date=1299447140]

Why should the farmer have to explain to locals that he has bought the land and no ones dog should be HIS field? Again ,would people be happy if his livestock was roaming free around everyone s land/garden/driveways?
[/quote]

Again , I am not saying He Had to do something different than He done. I am saying He could do it different and it was better to everyone included Him. No people wouldn't be happy if His livestock was roaming free but I am sure nobody would shoot them.
 
[quote author=Denis555 link=topic=29419.msg341568#msg341568 date=1299447140]
Do you agree a dog life is of thev same value as a sheeps life?
[/quote]

To be quiet honest NO.

Iv had lambs as pets when i was young, we ate them in the end.

And i know were your coming from, if the dog attacked the sheep, iv no argument with that.
I dont think if the dog chased it round the field, he should be put down, even if it does die.
Sheep= Product
Dog = Family
 
Wrong both are animals ,the fact that people make a dog a pet and get more attached to them is the reason that it's harder to not make the dog more superior , I personally like dogs more than sheep BUT that isn't the issue here ,I feel that watching Telly with a 3 year old ewe laying at your feet in the house would leave you open to gossip by neighbours:)
So if the dog eats the sheep =dead sheep
If dog cause heart attack by chasing =dead sheep
Both actions have the same result ,and on both occasions had the owner of the dog been responsible there wouldn't be a problem
 
The farmer has the right to shoot any dogs that stray onto his land who attack his animals and put them under stress and id say that small dog wasn on his own when of if he attacked the sheep on that day, probally was another dog with him. They usually attack in pairs. We all say our dogs wouldn hurt anyone or anything but i wouldn trust any dog, even our own if she got out, you just never know.
 
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