LISBON TREATY VOTE NO

I think No supporters should really look at who the posters belong to that you are quoting from.

You wouldnt vote for a single party listed below in a general election, so why the hell are you beliving the crap they are coming out with now? If they had there way Ireland would still be stuck in the time warp that was 1970.

Sinn Féin http://www.sinnfein.ie/

Republican Sinn Féin http://www.rsf.ie/

Communist Party of Ireland http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/

Socialist Party http://www.socialistparty.net/

Workers’ Party http://www.workerspartyireland.net/

People’s Movement http://www.peoplesmovement.org/

Cóir http://www.lisbonvote.com/

Peace and Neutrality Alliance (PANA) http://www.pana.ie/

People Before Profit http://www.people-before-profit.org/

Campaign Against EU Constitution (CAEUC) http://www.caeuc.org/
 
Don't forget Declan Ganley and his band of not-so-merry men!!

He retired from politics after fielding 520 candidates in the european elections and only getting 1 elected but he's back to lead the No campaign again!! :icon_hang:
 
Well lads everybody seems quiet set in the way they intend to vote :thumbsup:
which is good because lads are thinking about it , making a descion and sticking with it .

My main concern not just on this forum but across the 26 counties as a whole , is the large amount of
false info that is out there ................

On the other hand why dosen't Brian Cowen and crew simply go for a live debate on TV and over the course
of a long evening , trash out the ins & outs of this threaty with any or all of the NO Campaingers , Much like watching
Bertie & Enda in the run up to previous elections .............................they Sat down said their piece and we where all better
off and could make a genuine informed desscion.

I reckon they don't know all the answers ..............and Yes that is a Concern !!!

Well why don't we try to sort fact from fiction here ....................(now no fecking arguments, if you have nothing nice to say, DONT SAY IT :icon_grin:.........please !!!!)

Each member puts forward one fact and we can debate as to weather true or false but you must explain your fact,
No point in posting up bullet points............ we've all read the posters.



I'll get started :

Ireland will remain a Neutral Country ie. no conscription
And to quote dircetly from the Lisbon Treaty : Annex1 , Section C
It does not prejudice the security and defence policy of each Member State, including Ireland, or the obligations of any Member State.
The Treaty of Lisbon does not affect or prejudice Ireland's traditional policy of military neutrality.
It will be for Member States - including Ireland, acting in a spirit of solidarity and without prejudice to its traditional policy of military neutrality - to determine the nature of aid or assistance to be provided to a Member State which is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of armed aggression on its territory.
Any decision to move to a common defence will require a unanimous decision of the European Council. It would be a matter for the Member States, including Ireland, to decide, in accordance with the provisions of the Treaty of Lisbon and with their respective constitutional requirements, whether or not to adopt a common defence.


So for me, that says we stay neutral !!!

Niall.
 
No provision of this Constitution
invalidates laws enacted, acts done
or measures adopted by the State,
before, on or after the entry into
force of the Treaty of Lisbon

This means that the Lisbon Treaty does not affect our constitution, so the NO voters saying that abortion will be legal are once again spouting lies trying to scare us into a No vote
 
I just a mini newspaper in the door dedicated to the no vote with the same crazy lies and conspiracy theories about nazi's and the original Brussels EU deal ..all total madness..BUT I'm sure most people in tallaght got it in their door and its much more compelling to the eye than the government one..Its laid out like the Sun newspaper big catchy headlines and bullet point in bold etc...
Scary stuff you have to wonder what is really behind the no campaign? what do these people have to gain..is it underlying racism?..I just can't understand it
 
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=17731.msg223387#msg223387 date=1253655707]
I just a mini newspaper in the door dedicated to the no vote with the same crazy lies and conspiracy theories about nazi's and the original Brussels EU deal ..all total madness..BUT I'm sure most people in tallaght got it in their door and its much more compelling to the eye than the government one..Its laid out like the Sun newspaper big catchy headlines and bullet point in bold etc...
Scary stuff you have to wonder what is really behind the no campaign? what do these people have to gain..is it underlying racism?..I just can't understand it
[/quote]

sorry but u cant possibly pull the racism debate here
 
What have the No side got to gain though?
I got a very attractive little booklet in the door today,
All spouting the same rubbish as the No signs, only this one has pretty models on it!
I'm converted :icon_lol:
Dan
 
[quote author=swampdonkey link=topic=17731.msg223420#msg223420 date=1253660890]
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=17731.msg223387#msg223387 date=1253655707]
I just a mini newspaper in the door dedicated to the no vote with the same crazy lies and conspiracy theories about nazi's and the original Brussels EU deal ..all total madness..BUT I'm sure most people in tallaght got it in their door and its much more compelling to the eye than the government one..Its laid out like the Sun newspaper big catchy headlines and bullet point in bold etc...
Scary stuff you have to wonder what is really behind the no campaign? what do these people have to gain..is it underlying racism?..I just can't understand it
[/quote]

sorry but u cant possibly pull the racism debate here
[/quote]
Sorry for my ignorance in this topic (specifically the racism part) but why can it not be racially motivated? Surely they cant think the country is going to make more money without EU backing? I really am struggeling to see what the NO campaigners have to gain from the result of a NO vote....
 
I am not going to support the YES or NO campaign, but i will debate the issues if i believe others have been misinformed, i have read through the lisbon treaty and to what effect the amendment to the constitution will have and i have debated the issues with others and i will now vote on my own observations and conclusions :new_gmorning:
 
[quote author=swampdonkey link=topic=17731.msg223420#msg223420 date=1253660890]
[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=17731.msg223387#msg223387 date=1253655707]
I just a mini newspaper in the door dedicated to the no vote with the same crazy lies and conspiracy theories about nazi's and the original Brussels EU deal ..all total madness..BUT I'm sure most people in tallaght got it in their door and its much more compelling to the eye than the government one..Its laid out like the Sun newspaper big catchy headlines and bullet point in bold etc...
Scary stuff you have to wonder what is really behind the no campaign? what do these people have to gain..is it underlying racism?..I just can't understand it
[/quote]

sorry but u cant possibly pull the racism debate here
[/quote]

I didnt say it was racism..I asked..I'm still waiting for some valid resons to say no..
 
Reasons for NO Vote!
1. Dustin the turkey would vote NO
2. Jerry Adams will vote NO
3. The nice lads at Coir want you to vote NO
4. Most of the main Parties and Big trade unions want a yes vote, so Feck them!

Would I be right in saying that Sinn Fein and Coir seem to be targeting certain area's more than others??
Dan
 
[quote author=forester sti link=topic=17731.msg224245#msg224245 date=1253996142]
Reasons for NO Vote!
1. Dustin the turkey would vote NO
2. Jerry Adams will vote NO
3. The nice lads at Coir want you to vote NO
4. Most of the main Parties and Big trade unions want a yes vote, so Feck them!

Would I be right in saying that Sinn Fein and Coir seem to be targeting certain area's more than others??
Dan
[/quote]


Well Dan i think you may have a point there very few posters around here but noticed certain areas of the City seem to be flooded with No vote posters
 
[quote author=pigeonhead link=topic=17731.msg224188#msg224188 date=1253983357]
Will miss the vote would have voted NO
[/quote]

Why?
 
Unfortunately I won't be in the country to vote but if I were I would vote No for the following reasons:

The Lisbon Treaty makes changes in the conduct of the Union’s external relations including by the appointment of a High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy;

This I do not want. The idea of someone in Europe deciding if the whole of Europe supports or gets involved in a debate or worse, war with other nations would not be good. Imagine if the treaty was in place during the yanks quest for oil and not only did they get their lap dogs in the UK involved but managed to influence this High Representative to get the EU army backing also??? Then European troops would be in Afganistan and Iraq fighting for oil and retaliation could be against Europe. Ireland being in Europe could then be affected. If someone wanted to hit back at Europe, they could attack a European capital city, lets say Dublin, do you think they would care about our neutrality??? Or care about hitting back at Europe??

This is not fact or definitley going to happen, it is just something that COULD happen, a POSSIBILITY, and one I don't want.

Another reason for my vote would be the campaign's by the Yes side...

As soon as I saw the first FG posters weeks ago, I got so pissed off and decided to vote no, purly to say "I won't be bullied or scared into voting Yes"

I have since read up on the treaty and based my decision on the facts :thumbsup:

But the FG posters and Ibec posters are pure scare mongering and are trying to SELL you the Yes vote.
"Yes for jobs" Are they saying if we voted yest the first time, everyone would still have a job??? :ponder: Will we all get our jobs back if we vote yes this time??? :ponder2: The answer is NO, its just scare mongering :icon_twisted:

How exactly is voting yes going to increase employment??? Please tell me because I can't work it out and nobody who is saying it is telling us how...

Its like magic, vote yes and instant jobs :whistle:

The "yes for jobs" campaign is some sh1te marketing companies idea and could only come out of the mind of someone with an IQ of 30 and no imagination :icon_hang:

We are in Europe, FACT. Voting No will not exile us from Europe.
This treaty is about changes to the way Europe works. I like the way it works at the moment.
 
Europe would still be part of the UN which would decide to go to war or not. As you rightly say, UK and USA went to war off their own bat for oil and money but the UN did not support this war which is why no other european country was involved. Europe's decision would not be based on the say so of one person. Plus the fact that Ireland retains its neutrality in this treaty so we would not be involved.

If you are influenced to vote no by the 'vote yes' posters then are you not swayed slightly the opposite way when you read 'NO' posters saying we will have a €1.86 minimum wage and other crap like that?

Europe is not going to remain working the same way regardless of this treaty. Under the current treaty we will soon be losing our EU commissioner, however, under lisbon, we will retain this commissioner thus giving us more say in our future. You are correct in the point that voting no will not exile us from the EU but if we vote no and go against what the rest of europe want then in future we will just be left out in the cold.
 
Fair play Cill probably the first rational reply to a no vote. I don't agree with you but respect the fact you have based your decision on a rational thought process.
I think the fact we are guaranteed our neutrality by passes that point, and also we allow American troops to land here that would probably make us a target already.
 
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